Is 30 day clock between purchase dates, pickup dates from FFL or permit issue dates

 

Which of the following scenarios are legal?

 

1 Gun 1 purchased Jan 1 Gun 2 purchased Feb 1, permits issued Jan 20 First gun picked up Jan 21, second gun picked up Feb 2

 

2 Gun 1 purchased Jan 1 gun 2 purchased Jan 3, permits issued Jan 20 First gun picked up Jan 21 second gun picked up feb 21

 

3 Gun 1 purchased Jan 1 gun 2 purchased Jan 3, permits issued Jan 20 First gun picked up Jan 21 second gun picked up feb 3

 

4 Gun 1 purchased Jan 1 gun 2 purchased Feb 1, permits issued Jan 20 Both guns picked up feb 2

 

5 Gun 1 purchased Jan 1 gun 2 purchased Feb 1, permits issued Jan 20 First gun picked up Jan 21 second gun picked up feb 21

 

Do 30 days have to pass between purchases, between pickup dates from FFl or does day one start on the day you get your permits and the 2nd permit can be used 30 days later regardless of purchase date?

You can buy as many permits as you wish. You can only USE the permits every 30 days. Using a permit is in essence taking possession of the gun.....meaning most shops will let you pay for the gun and hold it until you are able to take possession of it, which is 30 days after you took possession of your last handgun.

30 days have to pass between purchases. The issue date is just a starting point to the 90 days until your permits are no good without an extension.

example:

i got 3 permits, issue date was nov 21, 2010. The 90 days would be February 19, 2011. They didn't call me until Dec. 1.

So, i bought my first gun Dec 3, second gun Jan 8, and the third purchase would be between feb 9 to feb 19.

So the 30d is between pickup times from your FFL not between purchases. So I can buy 2 guns on the same day and pick them up 30 apart from my FFL but I can't buy them 30d apart and pickup on same day.

confused by the math above.... but in any case, the guys are correct.

 

You can apply for as many permits as you want, can use 1 every 30 days to take possession of the gun. Many will let you buy and hold it for you, not recommended for face to face unless you know the person. If you paid for more than 1, then it may make sense to apply for the exemption process.

i dont know if an FFL will let you buy 2 at the same time without the exemption. you can pay for it, but they will have to hold it until the 30 days. I think they'll do the NICS check when you pick up the second gun 30 days later.

i dont know if an FFL will let you buy 2 at the same time without the exemption. you can pay for it, but they will have to hold it until the 30 days. I think they'll do the NICS check when you pick up the second gun 30 days later.

 

 

Correct, by Buy I mean to purchase the handguns... but not to physically take possession of them to take home.

So if I buy 2 guns from 2 different dealers I have to wait 30d between taking possession NOT BETWEEN PURCHASES correct?

So if I buy 2 guns from 2 different dealers I have to wait 30d between taking possession NOT BETWEEN PURCHASES correct?

 

 

You can prepay for the guns.... but the dealer is not going to give you the gun.

 

If you know which two guns you are going to buy, Contact the FFL about the OGAM exemption forms. With those, you will be able to pick them both up.

I just picked up a new gun this week. You are now required to and the dealer is required to have you sign a form saying you have not purchased another firearm within the past 30 days.

I just picked up a new gun this week. You are now required to and the dealer is required to have you sign a form saying you have not purchased another firearm within the past 30 days.

really? i only signed the federal form yesterday.

I just picked up a new gun this week. You are now required to and the dealer is required to have you sign a form saying you have not purchased another firearm within the past 30 days.

 

 

Not purchased or not picked up? ...I thought OGAM meant not take possession (ie pick up from FFL) but you could buy multiples within 30d and have FFL hold them.

Not purchased or not picked up? ...I thought OGAM meant not take possession (ie pick up from FFL) but you could buy multiples within 30d and have FFL hold them.

 

Let's be clear here, shall we?

 

In the eyes of the law, the date on the pistol permit form(and the 4473) is the day you purchased it. How much or how little or when you gave money to the retailer doesn't matter at all. The dealer will not fill the forums until 30 days have elapsed from a prior purchase.

 

You may only buy 1 gun, every 30 days. This means if you buy a gun on January 1, you may not buy another gun until January 31. This is reflected in the paperwork. You could buy one gun every 30 days and take possession of them all at the end of 90 days. What matters to the law is the date on the form and that it isn't fraudulently filled out of course.

I think that a lot of people are getting confused with the terms being used. Instead of "purchasing", lets use "pay for". You could essentially pay for as many different handguns as you wanted.....but you can only take possession of ONE handgun every 30 days. The act of paying for is different than the act of taking possession of, and taking possession of is the act that OGAM applies to.

I think that a lot of people are getting confused with the terms being used. Instead of "purchasing", lets use "pay for". You could essentially pay for as many different handguns as you wanted.....but you can only take possession of ONE handgun every 30 days. The act of paying for is different than the act of taking possession of, and taking possession of is the act that OGAM applies to.

 

I agree, but legal ownership does not occur until the forms are signed and dated. Actual physical possession could take place after the form is signed. Maybe you bought the gun, got the paperwork finished and the dealer was going to work on it. It's quite possible that could take days or weeks. What REALLY matters is when the forms are signed and dated. Everything else is insignificant.

I agree, but legal ownership does not occur until the forms are signed and dated. Actual physical possession could take place after the form is signed. Maybe you bought the gun, got the paperwork finished and the dealer was going to work on it. It's quite possible that could take days or weeks. What REALLY matters is when the forms are signed and dated. Everything else is insignificant.

Thank you for adding even more clarity to the "taking possession" portion.

Am i the only one hear who's totally confused? It appears I'm getting conflicting answers to my original question.... Can some look at the original sceneraios presented and tell me which ones are legal. Assume each gun is bought from a different internet dealer but shipped to the same FFL.... thanks

The 4473 and P2P might have different dates. They will have the same date most of the time, but could have three different dates.

 

There are four dates on the 4473:

1. The date the buyer fills out the 4473. (Certification by Buyer)

2. The date the dealer calls in your info. (Dated by Dealer)

3. The date the buyer takes possession. (Re-Certification by Buyer)

4. The date the transfer takes place. (Dated by Dealer)

Note: Date #4 must always match Date #1 or Date #3.

 

Scenarios:

A. Buyer fills out 4473 on Friday and fills in the Certification Date. Dealer calls in info the same day. Buyer takes possession. Dealer dates the transfer as Friday. The P2P and 4473 Certification Dates are the same.

B. Buyer fills out 4473 on Friday and fills in the Certification Date and then leaves. Dealer calls in info the same day. Buyer returns on Saturday and recertifies info with Saturday's date. Buyer takes possession. Dealer dates the transfer as Saturday. The P2P and 4473 Re-Certification Dates are the same.

C. Buyer fills out 4473 on Friday and fills in the Certification Date. NICS is down. Dealer calls in info on Saturday. Buyer returns on Saturday and recertifies info with Saturday's date. Buyer takes possession. Dealer dates the transfer as Saturday. The P2P and 4473 Re-Certification Dates are the same.

D. Buyer fills out 4473 on Sunday. Dealer calls in info on Monday. Buyer returns on Tuesday and recertifies info with Tuesday's date. Buyer takes possession. Dealer dates the transfer as Tuesday. The P2P and 4473 Re-Certification Dates are the same.

Note: The P2P date must always match the Dealer's transfer date on the 4473.

 

Possession takes place by the date on the P2P and/or the Date Transferred (#36) on the 4473 (Dated by Dealer). The 30 day OGAM rule goes by this date.

 

ETA: When you pay, purchase, buy, fondle, drool doesn't matter. The permit date is the only date that matters, whether you are buying from the same dealer, another dealer or face to face.

What's confusing? You can buy 100 different pistols from all over the Internet and pay for it and have it shipped to your FFL. the FFL is only going to give you 1 gun every 30 days to take home unless you file for the exemption.

What's confusing? You can buy 100 different pistols from all over the Internet and pay for it and have it shipped to your FFL. the FFL is only going to give you 1 gun every 30 days to take home unless you file for the exemption.

This. I don't understand how it's confusing either. It has been explained several times on this one page. Where the pistol is purchased from does not matter......you can only take possession of ONE handgun every 30 days. Buying a pistol online is essentially the same thing as buying one from your local shop. When you buy one online, it gets shipped to the FFL of your choice, and they transfer the gun to you through the same process as if you were buying a gun in the shops stock.

Just a point of info - Jan 21 to Feb 21 is 31 days, not 30. By law, if gun 1 purchase is completed on Jan 21, you are again eligible on Feb 20, and if that purchase is completed on Feb 20 you are not again eligible until March 22. (If you don't believe me, get out your calendars and count the days.) Point being that the calculation is "30 days" not "1 month".

Also I frequently get calls, "My permit expires today, can I come and buy a gun"?

 

There is no expiration date on the permits. It expires 90 days from the issue date. NOT 3 MONTHS.

Also I frequently get calls, "My permit expires today, can I come and buy a gun"?

 

There is no expiration date on the permits. It expires 90 days from the issue date. NOT 3 MONTHS.

 

Now if it was renewed. Does it expire 180 days from the date of issue or 90 days from date of renewal?

 

thanks!

Now if it was renewed. Does it expire 180 days from the date of issue or 90 days from date of renewal?

 

thanks!

 

Date of Issue.

Yes, 180 days from the date of issue, NOT 90 days from the extension.

Has anyone actually tried to purchase on the 1st and again on the 31st of the same month?

Am i the only one hear who's totally confused? It appears I'm getting conflicting answers to my original question.... Can some look at the original sceneraios presented and tell me which ones are legal. Assume each gun is bought from a different internet dealer but shipped to the same FFL.... thanks

 

Ok..let's Simplify it a Bit.

 

There has to be 30 days between handgun TRANSFERS, which are accomplished through the use if a Permit to Purchase. You can buy a DOZEN handguns at once, but you can only TRANSFER Them Once every 30 days. Doesnt matter if its through an FFL or a Face-to-face, there has to be 30 days between handgun Transfers in the absence of an OGAM exemption Form. Case in point, i BOUGHT a handgun through Gunbroker, it has been transferred to my FFL, and is sitting there waiting for me (waiting for permits) I am looking at 2 other handguns on GB right now as well, If both auctions go my way, all 3 will have been Purchased by me, Before i even have permits in hand. However I can only have them transferred to me One at a time, with 30 calendar days in between transfers, unless I submit the application for an exemption.

Has anyone actually tried to purchase on the 1st and again on the 31st of the same month?

 

Why not? Nothing wrong with that. You're prob alluding to the literal definition of OGAM which is a misnomer as far as the law goes. Its every 30 days, not One Gun A Month

Has anyone actually tried to purchase on the 1st and again on the 31st of the same month?

 

It's called OGAM, but the law is once every 30 days, so that should be fine.

I bought 2 guns in December. I picked up gun #1 on 12/24/14 (Day 0 - this is the date on the P2P) the way I interpret OGAM, I should be able to pick up gun #2 on 1/23/15 (Day 30), correct?