I am working out a trade with someone and they offered a 1918 knuckle knife. I would love to get my hands on one of these. The one he has is all original so it fits in my collection nicely. Now it is brass knuckles with a blade on it so would it be legal in NJ. I know it is illegal in California, but I dont want to get in trouble here. Isn't it sad when I have to ask the legality of a knife that is almost 100yrs old.....

 

 

not my knife, but this is what they look like.

Not legal IMHO

Any kind of brass knuckles is illegal in this fine state of ours. Also, that knife is considered a "dagger" because it has a sharp edge, so it's a double whammy. It's basically up to you to argue "explainable lawful purpose" in court.

The way it will go, you'll get arrested then you tell them it's part of your collection. They'll tell you to save it for the court. Since you'll be charged with a fourth degree crime, they will take the rest of your stuff until everything is cleared. plausible or paranoia?

 

e. Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

Any kind of brass knuckles is illegal in this fine state of ours. Also, that knife is considered a "dagger" because it has a sharp edge, so it's a double whammy.

Don't all knives supposed to have sharp edges? You meant double edge, right?

 

A dagger is a double-edged blade used for hitting, stabbing or thrusting. They often fulfill the role of a secondary defense weapon in close combat. In most cases, a tang extends into the handle along the centreline of the blade.Daggers may be differentiated from knives on the basis that daggers are intended primarily for stabbing whereas knives are usually single-edged and intended mostly for cutting. However, many knives and daggers are capable of either stabbing or cutting.

Don't all knives supposed to have sharp edges? You meant double edge, right?

according to the dictionary, it doesn't have to be double edged.

 

 

dag·ger

   /ˈdægər/ Show Spelled[dag-er] Show IPA

–noun

1.

a short, swordlike weapon with a pointed blade and a handle, used for stabbing.

 

dag·ger (dgr)

n.

1. A short pointed weapon with sharp edges.

2. Something that agonizes, torments, or wounds.

3. Printing

a. See obelisk.

b. A double dagger.

 

dagger [ˈdægə]

n

1. (Military / Arms & Armour (excluding Firearms)) a short stabbing weapon with a pointed blade

In other words, anything but a butter knife is illegal to possess without any explainable lawful purpose.

There are many things that are "illegal to own" that however reside in museums throughout the state. Eric, perhaps you should open a milsurp museum??

 

I was in a certain office in NYC and I saw several very illegal firearms that "should have been destroyed" but were kept as museum examples. For instance, a double barreled 12 ga cutdown shotgun, barrel was barely longer than the receiver and the stock was cutdown to a handgun...

Its fine, just have a "lawful purpose", i.e. transporting it home for your collection. Still a crap shoot like everything in NJ, you could still get arrested, have to prove you are innocent...

 

Basically you can own it for your collection as that is a lawful purpose.

 

e. Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his

possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger,

dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub,

slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with

metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic

knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty

of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

It looks cool, it would be fun to own so therefor it is illegal in New Jersey.

Not legal IMHO

 

 

to carry.. or to own...

 

just curious.. I agree that it would certainly not be legal to carry.. but as others pointed out.. can you "collect" things like this?

to carry.. or to own...

 

just curious.. I agree that it would certainly not be legal to carry.. but as others pointed out.. can you "collect" things like this?

 

It depends if the criminal justice system accepts "collecting" as a "lawful purpose" for owning it. Like many of the firearm laws in NJ, it opens the door for prosecution if they so choose to pursue.

Illegal to carry but I don't think illegal to own. As you said it is an original and that reinforces the "collector" function as long as you keep it home or enroute to some show. Could you be arrested? I would put this in the same category as being arrested:

 

1. for possession of the single hollowpoint

 

2. for letting a friend handle one of your handguns at any other place then a range

(illegal transfer as ssomeone pointed out in a recent thread)

I always wanted to buy one of those until I saw this one

 

http://www.atlantacutlery.com/p-2219-british-wwi-robbins-and-dudley-push-dagger.aspx

Buy it. Collect it. Etc

 

r u going to post a placard at your house indicating that u have this inside???

 

Be realistic...how many switchblades probably are in collections statewide and no one knows abt them

 

I think ur being paranoid....but tars my.02

I understand where you are coming from but.....does that mean we should stock up on 30 round mags at home, keep an AR with a fully telescoping stock at home? I don't think that "Nobody knows about it, just do it and break the law since it isn't hurting anyone" is neither the best way to go about things, nor a good image that we should publicly portray. This is just my opinion.

I understand where you are coming from but.....does that mean we should stock up on 30 round mags at home, keep an AR with a fully telescoping stock at home? I don't think that "Nobody knows about it, just do it and break the law since it isn't hurting anyone" is neither the best way to go about things, nor a good image that we should publicly portray. This is just my opinion.

 

+1

I understand where you are coming from but.....does that mean we should stock up on 30 round mags at home, keep an AR with a fully telescoping stock at home? I don't think that "Nobody knows about it, just do it and break the law since it isn't hurting anyone" is neither the best way to go about things, nor a good image that we should publicly portray. This is just my opinion.

+1. Perception is everything.

"without any explainable lawful purpose" is for knives, not magazines or firearms.

Buy it. Collect it. Etc

 

r u going to post a placard at your house indicating that u have this inside???

 

Be realistic...how many switchblades probably are in collections statewide and no one knows abt them

 

I think ur being paranoid....but tars my.02

You're correct that the odds are they won't know about it.

The problem is if you have a fire or some other need for emergency services and your stuff gets discovered.

Doesn't matter, owning the knife for collecting purposes is a "lawful purpose", and is within the law. You just wouldn't be walking around with it in public, unless you can explain a good lawful purpose for it... and you can't use self-defense.

"without any explainable lawful purpose" is for knives, not magazines or firearms.

 

 

+1.. not like it matters.. but seriously..

 

collecting a historical relic... seems pretty lawful to me..

stabbing someone and robbing them.. seems pretty unlawful to me..

 

I guess the law is reasonably clear on the matter?

+1.. not like it matters.. but seriously..

 

collecting a historical relic... seems pretty lawful to me..

stabbing someone and robbing them.. seems pretty unlawful to me..

 

I guess the law is reasonably clear on the matter?

The concern I would have with "explainable lawful purpose" is that it is subjective, and NJ is not known for being reasonable when it comes to enforcing weapons laws. Unless there is another part of the law that specifically allows collecting, you could be charged with a felony, and even if you prevail it will cost you a lot of money.

 

I would agree that this item is certainly collectible, but you know the average prosecutor and judge are less likely to be so open minded.

Thanks for the good discussion guys, this is why I love this board. Our laws are so stupid, they leave sooooo much left to interpretation. It is a sad day when I have to questoin the legality of a US Military knife that is almost 100 yrs old....... good 'ol NJ.

 

BTW make any illegal u-Turns lately...? Been Speeding?? if you did you broke the law.... just saying

Interesting (and depressing) how you get a simple ticket for abusing a privilege, but jail time for exercising a right. Just seems wrong.

I'm not advocating disregarding and breaking the law..........when it comes to firearms.............please do not misunderstand me.....

Everything you said is completely understandable, and as far as I am concerned it is reasonable. I wasn't suggesting he not get the knife. I was simply suggesting that having the attitude of "Nobody will know about it, so let's do it" isn't really the best way to go about things regarding firearms, at least in my opinion. As stupid as the laws are, I would much rather abide by the laws than risk the .001% chance of getting caught. Now I have different motives than others here. I am going to school for criminal justice, and if I were ever found to have anything even questionable, I would likely kiss my career in law enforcement goodbye......kind of like people with CDL's make an extra effort to not drink and drive.

 

Back on topic. Collecting knives, even firearms, is going to be negatively portrayed by the media anyway. I hope you don't think that dates on your firearms will prevent them from calling it an "arsenal". Anyone with an IQ of more than 50 should be able to tell by looking at a Mosin, Garand, Mauser etc. that you are not building an "arsenal" with which you intend to commit a crime......the media just spins it that way to sell their product. My concern is not how something looks in the media, rather how legal it is. If this knife is in fact illegal in NJ, then in my opinion I think it would be unwise to take possession of it regardless of OP's intent. Again, just my opinion. As you said, we all have to make a decision, and he will make his.

the media just spins it that way to sell their product.

 

It's not just the media. The prosecutors have bought into this line of BS as well.