I'm looking into getting a box or two of a few types of 9mm luger self defense ammo. I'm not sure what weight projectile to use, or whether to run standard pressure or some hotter loads. There are so many options in 9mm that it boggles my mind! I love Hornady Critical Defense but I don't want to limit my choices. What should I look at?

Ray,

 

I'm a big fan of Remington Golden Saber 124gr 9mm +P rounds, or normal 124gr non +P's. The Glocks all *love* them.

 

I am familiar with the Critical Defense and use it in my .380. But I stick to GS's for the larger calibers because they have always worked well in all the firearms I've used them in over the years.

I have two boxes of Critical Defense and still have ball in the guns. Got to try it.

CorBon DPX is a pretty good one.

I'm not sure if I should run 115, 124 or 147 grain weights. Or if standard pressure, +P, or +P+ would do the trick.

I'm not sure if I should run 115, 124 or 147 grain weights. Or if standard pressure, +P, or +P+ would do the trick.

 

 

Try Speer 147 grain Gold Dot JHP

 

Here is a review also

 

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs9.htm

Just for what it's worth, read this :http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

 

9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger,9x19mm, 9mm NATO, or simply "9mm")

 

This is unquestionably the world's most popular pistol round. For this reason it has been the subject of a lot of experimentation, because 9mm ball - used by every army in the Western world - is a mediocre manstopper. Jacketed hollowpoints are a must if one wishes to rely on the 9mm as a defense round. Use ball ammo for practice only.

 

9mm ammunition is available in two pressure levels: standard and "+P." The latter should only be used in newer guns (made since 1985 or so), and is best used sparingly. I will deal here with only commercially available ammunition: there are specialized loads available only to law enforcement personnel. Civilians should not worry, as there are commercial loads as good or better than anything restricted to law enforcement usage.

 

I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint. This is the most powerful and street-proven manstopper available in this caliber. It is a high velocity (1340 fps) and high pressure round, and more effective than any load restricted to law enforcement use (such as the Federal 9BPLE).

 

Unfortunately, it is also likely to jam many older guns. For this reason I add a table at the end of the 9mm section discussing round suitability for different guns. Modern hollowpoints may either (a) jam, or (B) be too powerful for some older guns. This load is suitable only for First Class pistols (see table).

 

The best standard pressure 9mm load is the Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP). Its effectiveness and accuracy make it the world standard. Buy several boxes. Other excellent standard pressure 9mm loads are the Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP), and Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok (P9HS1).

 

For guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal 115 grain hollow-points, the Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6). For older guns I would use the Remington standard pressure 115 gr. JHP (R9MM1).

 

Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

 

Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given:

 

Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)

Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)

Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)

Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)

Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)

Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)

Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)

Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.

CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619)

 

Table Of 9mm Pistols.

 

(Note: just because your pistol appears in Class 3, say, doesn't mean it is unreliable: it may indeed feed hollowpoints. But you must fire at least 200 rounds of your chosen JHP carry load to determine if your pistol will feed them properly. I have placed pistols in each category according to reputation and experience. These are only meant as guidelines - your pistol may feed JHP rounds better - or worse - than this table indicates)

 

First Class pistols are ultra-reliable and high-quality new guns than can feed any hollowpoint and tolerate +P loads with no problems: SIG/Sauer P220 series. Czech CZ75 and CZ85. Walther P5, P5C, and P88. Heckler and Koch USP and P7 series. All Glocks. All Ruger 9mm pistols. Taurus PT-99, PT-92 and PT-92C. Steyr GB. Beretta 92 series. Browning BDM and Hi-Power (if it says "Portugal" on the slide). All Smith & Wessons with a four-digit model number (e.g. 5906, 3913, 6904, 5903) and the Smith & Wesson 900 series. Star M28, M30, M31, and all Firestars, Megastars, and Ultrastars.

 

Second Class pistols are high quality guns that may not feed all hollowpoints reliably. Remington 115 gr. hollowpoints are recommended for these guns: Smith & Wessons with two or three digit model numbers (e.g. 659, 39-2, 469, 59, 39). Heckler and Koch VP70 and P9S. Beretta "Brigadier" M1951 and the Egyptian copy, the Interarms "Helwan." Colt M2000 "All-American" (now discontinued, for good reason), Colt Series 70 Government Model, Series 70 Commander. Astra A-70, A-75 and A-100. AMT "On Duty." Daewoo. Bersa 'Thunder 9'. EAA Witness, and all other CZ-75 copies (e.g. Tanfoglio, Tanarmi, Springfield Armory P9). Taurus PT-908. Walther P4. Star BK, BKM, Model B and 'Super.' Browning Hi-Powers without the word "Portugal" on the slide. Llama Model 82. IMI "Jericho" and "Kareen."

 

Third Class pistols should generally be loaded with ball for best reliability - experiment with your gun extensively before carrying JHP: Walther P38, P4 or P1. Luger. Llama. Maverick. MKS Model JS. Intratec CAT-9, DC-9, KG-9, etc. SWD Cobray Model 11/9 and similar models. Scarab Scorpion. Kimel AP-9. Bryco Jennings Model 59. All KBI Hungarian pistols (e.g. GKK, PJ9C, P9HK and other "FEG" products). "Norinco" or "Sportarms" Chinese Tokarev pistols. Lahti. Radom. MAB P15 and Model 1950.

CorBon DPX is a pretty good one.

That's what I'm using in 9mm. 115 grain +p, for no other reasons than the great reviews I've read, and it feeding flawlessly during my testing.

Yeah, Corbon DPX in 9mm is loaded in my nightstand Magazine.

i just picked up some Hornady Critical Defense from the g_show in white plains today. (bought the LAST BOX in 9m) NOBODY in north NJ has Critical Defence in-stock in 9mm. (only .40) im loading 'em into my mag as we speak.

I'd look for what feeds flawlessly and most accurate in your gun. There is no magic bullet that is going to make up for sloppy shot placement. I like WW 115gr Silvertip or 124 gr Speer Gold Dot in Glocks. Just about any 147 JHP in Taurus or Beretta. Beware of anyone giving absolutes as "the ABC 116 grain rhino roller ++P++ is best".

 

You will see maybe 100-125 FPS maximum actual gain (chrongraphed) going to a +P or +P+. This isn't going to mak eor break a well placed shot. My idea of +P+ in 9mm is called 357 SIG. If you feel you need more gun start with more gun. There are those that will tell you to change springs etc etc. Something tells me the engineers that designed the gun know more about spring weights and ammo pressure levels than I do.

 

I will use +P or +P+ 38s in 357 magnum guns but don't think they do anything in a semiauto pistol.

I'm a fan of 124gr Hydrashoks myself.

Ray depends on which gun you're planning on using. You need to take into account the condition of the recoil spring and what weight it is.

I load my USP compact w/ corbon pow'rball.

You're going to get way too many opinions in this thread.

 

The only thing I would suggest is buying some different boxes of HP ammo and test them through the gun you plan on using them in. Try all different loads, as well as +P if your gun can handle it.

 

If you have any friends in LE, I would ask what they're using. That's what I did when I started looking into HP ammo. Took a small survey if you will then went from there.

 

Another thing you could do is research different loads and their reactions to gelatin through testing. Be weary though, as more and more shooters seem to take these tests with a grain of salt as some LE and civilian shooters don't believe ballistic gelatin can react like human flesh/organs/etc will.

 

For myself, I use these pictured below for a few reasons. They feed flawlessly in my gun (500rds minimum), numerous LE agencies use them (as well as off-duty), and their expansion is much better than any other HP's I have seen. The bullet on the left went through bare gelatin, the bullet on the right went through denim covered gelatin.

The quoted wall of text doesn't seem to list reasons for at least half of its statements.

 

I found this to be an interesting read: This is an interesting read.

I use federal EFMJs, the 9mm 124 grain +p flavor.

 

I use EFMJ for 2 reasons:

 

#1 is that it is less evil than a hollow point. Raises less questions, wether its during a traffic stop going out to PA to carry or in a self defense scenario.

#2 is it expands no matter what. It doesnt rely on fluid to expand. This is nice because if you miss, it will expand on other objects thus slowing it down and making it safer. Very reliable expansion.

 

This stuff meets the 12" FBI expansion minimum, but I dont think the civvy stuff does so beware.

I'm problably gonna stay away from anything 147 grain since I never shoot that weight anyway. I'm gonna also stay away from +P+, it's not a magnum caliber so why destroy the gun. I forgot to mention that this immo will go into a Glock 19 Gen 1. So far, I'm looking into:

Hornady Critical Defense 115g(standard and +P)

Corbon DPX 115g

Speer Gold dot

 

I also have some other stuff sitting in my ammo box that needs to be looked at. I'll figure it out, but for now I'll just rock with a 38.

Just went sniffin round in my stash. I found some Speer Gold Dot HP 115g standard pressure, Federal Premium HP 115g +P+, andsome Remington Golden Saber 124g +P. I'm gonna pick up a box of the Hornady TAP stuff along with the Critical Defense, CorbonDPX, and whatever else is in the store on Monday.

For myself, I use these pictured below for a few reasons. They feed flawlessly in my gun (500rds minimum), numerous LE agencies use them (as well as off-duty), and their expansion is much better than any other HP's I have seen. The bullet on the left went through bare gelatin, the bullet on the right went through denim covered gelatin.

 

Winchester Ranger? Where do you get it?

Winchester Ranger? Where do you get it?

 

Yes that's correct. I buy them in bulk on the net as LGS' rarely have them in stock, and if they do, they are incredibly overpriced (among other things).

147's are a NO GO!!! 9mm is supposed to be a fast round with good penetration. Leave slow and heavy for .45. I use Speer GD's in 124 but I've read a ton about Cor-Bon and am going to pick up a case when I can find that much.

Round 1

 

 

The ammo I had the first time out was Speer Gold Dot in 115, 124 and 147 grain standard pressures, Remington Golden Saber 124 grain +P, Federal +P+ 115 grain HP, and Remington UMC 115 grain plinking stuff

 

 

Distance was 7 yards with the gun resting on the table. Took 5 shoots for each group and if I take away 1 flyer from every group (and every stage had one or more), the spread was pretty much all the same. I was expecting the +P and +P+ stuff to be thumpers but that wasn't the case at all. In fact, the standard pressure Speer stuff problably had the most thump, though it wasn't enough to bother me.

 

I'm gonna do a Round 2 but so far this all seems to be a moot point. What I thought would happen and what is happening is totally different. I'll run some other stuff next time and we'll see how it looks. No clear winner right now and I'd use any of the above mentioned brands if I had to.

Winchester Ranger? Where do you get it?

 

My link

 

Where I got mine..

147's are a NO GO!!! 9mm is supposed to be a fast round with good penetration. Leave slow and heavy for .45. I use Speer GD's in 124 but I've read a ton about Cor-Bon and am going to pick up a case when I can find that much.

 

Can you show any evidence why 147gr are a "no go"?

Ray, how long have you had that ammo for!? The boxes look so old and beat up!

 

Cool testing though. I'm guessing all the different ammo functioned good (as in feeding/ejecting)?

Ray, how long have you had that ammo for!? The boxes look so old and beat up!

 

Cool testing though. I'm guessing all the different ammo functioned good (as in feeding/ejecting)?

 

The speer 115 and 124 is brandy new! the speer 147 and remmy stuff was a little older. the Federal was bought a few years ago.

 

Hornady Critical Defense, Corbon DPX, PowrBall are next. And if anything else pops up. Round 2 will problably be when I get some more ammo!

I just ordered some powerball in 9mm and .357sig. Replacing old hydroshocks in my 9mm, and golddots in my .357 sig. The golddots are still very good performers from my understanding so I'll keep those, maybe stagger GD's and PRB's.

 

They hydro's I'll be blasting off at paper to get rid of them.

i just picked up some Hornady Critical Defense from the g_show in white plains today. (bought the LAST BOX in 9m) NOBODY in north NJ has Critical Defence in-stock in 9mm. (only .40) im loading 'em into my mag as we speak.

 

 

Dick's Sporting Goods in East Hanover and Rockaway both carry them. 19.99 for a box of 25. Midway USA is running them on sale at 16.99.

Can you show any evidence why 147gr are a "no go"?

 

The 147 grain has a bad rap for self-defense ammo. The article below is from 2002, so I don't know how much has changed in bullet technology since then, so take his brand recommendations as 10 year old advice that may not be up-to-date anymore. Regardless, short of some breakthrough, I would avoid the 147grain ammo except for competitions and plinking.

 

 

Article by Massad Ayoob (noted firearm authority)

9mm Parabellum

 

147-grain: The faddish adoption of the 147-grain subsonic 9mm took more than a decade of street experience to stamp out. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. I saw cases where even the vaunted Black Talon overpenetrated and failed to do the job. The great majority of departments that issued it, including its parent agency, the FBI, have now either gone to .40s, .45s or .357 SIGs, or have gone to a more effective, lighter bullet/higher velocity 9mm round. In good conscience, I cannot recommend any 147-grain subsonic 9mm round for self-defense or police service.

/-125-grain: Caught between cops who believed in Fackler (slow 147-grain) and those who believed in Marshall (fast 115-grain), many police decision-makers have decided to split the difference and go with something in the mid 120-grain range. The best results have been with the hot P and P loads at around 1,250 ft.sec. NYPD adopted the hot CCI Gold Dot 124-grain and reports excellent street results. Denver PD has adopted the same round for its officers who choose the 9mm from the optional weapon list. Winchester's Ranger Talon 127-grain P has also earned an excellent reputation. Forward-thinking, research-intensive departments, such as the San Bernardino County (CA) Sheriff's Department, have adopted it for deputies who carry 9mms. But, as noted, the Ranger Talon series is sold only to law-enforcement agencies.

115-grain: Federal's 9BP, a 115-grain at 1,160 fps, is the one standard pressure 9mm load that has been around for roughly a quarter century without any horror stories of stopping failures. Every shooting with it that I know of has resulted in a stopped offender, usually with mushroomed bullets lodged in the far side of the body. Last I knew, New Jersey State Police (HK P7M8) and Philadelphia PD (Glock 19s) were still using it with good results.

However, the best results in this grain weight, and indeed in the caliber, have been logged with the Illinois State Police Load. A 115-grain JHP at 1,300 to 1,350 fps, it is available to police from Winchester, Federal and Remington; and to civilians from Pro-Load, Black Hills and others. When you see an autopsy report that indicates the cause of death as "cardiac maceration," and there was only one 9mm round fired, you can be pretty sure it was one of these rounds. When in doubt: Pro-Load Tactical (1st choice) or Federal 9BP 115-grain JHP

 

http://findarticles....ag=content;col1