I am a member of Central Jersey R&P Club and I was asked by a non-member who was interseted in joining a question about the pits. Honestly, I was not sure of the answer and was not sure who to ask. So I thought I would reach out to you guys to see if you had an answer for me. Here goes: The rules for the pits states that ANY handgun with caliber not exceeding .45 is permitted, but PROHIBITS the use of "centerfire rifles". I'm admit that I am probably over analyzing this, but can I but can I use a centerfire handgun ammunition (i.e. 9mm or .45ACP) in a rifle chambered for that ammo? For example, could I shoot an AR15 type rifle if it is chambered in 9mm?

 

Wasn't sure who to check with.

 

Thanks guys!

 

MSax

No. Only rimfire rifles in the pits. Unless you get a draw and fire badge and shoot lead bullets at less than 1,000FPS.

That's what I thought. Just double checking.

 

Thanks!

No. Only rimfire rifles in the pits. Unless you get a draw and fire badge and shoot lead bullets at less than 1,000FPS.

 

So the only thing the average member can take into the pits is a rimfire rifle? That's lame. Is it because of the accident a while back?

So the only thing the average member can take into the pits is a rimfire rifle? That's lame. Is it because of the accident a while back?

 

 

You can obviously take all handguns into the pits. =)

 

Btw, draw and fire badge is not tough to get, just shoot 2 events at CJ I believe. correct me if I am wrong wolfy.

Maks,

 

Here are the rules for the draw and fire badge:

 

# The draw and fire badge is intended for those that shoot and wish to practice for IPSIC, NRA Rapid Action, Steel Challenge or Cowboy Action and other events. The badge authorizes members to draw and fire a hand gun from a holster.

# This badge also authorizes the use of a rifle in the Pits but only with pistol size ammo loaded with lead bullets and a velocity of 1000 ft/sec. maximum.

# To obtain the badge the shooter must attend matches in the afore mentioned programs, or combination there of, and supply copies of the 3 match results or obtain a sign off by the match directors.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

 

It's annoying that CJ restricts the badge to people who've attended matches and this is one of the reason I've been holding off joining. How about if I want to practice my CCW skills (for out of state use, obviously)?

 

Also, am I the only one that thinks that saying the badge is for people trying to practice for matches and yet requiring them to attend matches before they have a chance to practice puts the cart before the horse?

 

Just let me train with an "approved instructor" one on one, get him to sign off on X hours of instruction as required by the board and approve the badge. What's so hard about that? Heck, come to think of it, an out of state CCW should get us SOMETHING here, and automatic approval (upon request) for a draw and fire badge should be it.

Also, am I the only one that thinks that saying the badge is for people trying to practice for matches and yet requiring them to attend matches before they have a chance to practice puts the cart before the horse?

I don't know if you're the only one that thinks this, but it's not backwards at all. The reason why they have to issue draw and carry badges is likely because they want those select few who can practice drawing at the range to be CAREFUL while doing it. If you can get through 2-3 matches, then you are drawing correctly and carefully. If you have never attempted to draw and fire your loaded weapon quickly, there is a chance you may be doing something unsafe. Again, just because you were approve for an out of state CCW license has NO bearing on their safety liabilities.

The requirements are so they can say you were observed using the gun in a safe manner. How can you say attending 2 matches is an unreasonable requirement?

The requirements are so they can say you were observed using the gun in a safe manner. How can you say attending 2 matches is an unreasonable requirement?

 

This is probably a requirement of the insurance company, as well.

Plus at a glance, if they, or I or any member see someone carrying on the property, we know your either, LEO, Military or experienced enough to do so..

an out of state CCW should get us SOMETHING here, and automatic approval (upon request) for a draw and fire badge should be it.

 

Again, just because you were approve for an out of state CCW license has NO bearing on their safety liabilities.

 

Plus at a glance, if they, or I or any member see someone carrying on the property, we know your either, LEO, Military or experienced enough to do so..

 

Shooting the 3 matches are the club's rules so live with it. I retired from the Army Reserve (1970-2010), spent over 30 years as a LEO, nearly 35 as a firearms instructor,still certified by the state of NJ to train and qualify retired LEOs for their carry permit and LEOSA, can carry anywhere in the US under LEOSA and have my NJ carry permit and I have to shoot 3 matches to get my draw and fire badge. I think I have a few more qualifications than an out of state carry permit and I can deal with it.

 

It's their rules and the way I see it they are entitled to make them.

Can I carry an unloaded handgun in a holster? I hate laying them on the ground when they are not in use.

Can I carry an unloaded handgun in a holster? I hate laying them on the ground when they are not in use

 

If there are none available I have a small folding table I bring which also serves as the firing line.

Can I carry an unloaded handgun in a holster? I hate laying them on the ground when they are not in use.

 

From what I understand, you can; the only persons that can have a Loaded gun in a holster LEO's and people with CCW's..

 

GENERAL RANGE AND SAFETY RULES

 

1. All firearms must be unloaded and made safe except while on the firing line. This rule includes holstered guns. The only exception being officers (law enforcement) and persons with a valid permit to carry on person.

 

however, like has been discussed, you cannot draw and fire without obtaining the proper badge first..

 

Hip shooting, quick draw or loaded holstered guns are NOT PERMITTED except for ORGANIZED AND SUPERVISED combat matches and persons with SPECIAL USE BADGES approved by the Board of Directors.

Shooting the 3 matches are the club's rules so live with it. I retired from the Army Reserve (1970-2010), spent over 30 years as a LEO, nearly 35 as a firearms instructor,still certified by the state of NJ to train and qualify retired LEOs for their carry permit and LEOSA, can carry anywhere in the US under LEOSA and have my NJ carry permit and I have to shoot 3 matches to get my draw and fire badge. I think I have a few more qualifications than an out of state carry permit and I can deal with it.

It's their rules and the way I see it they are entitled to make them.

 

It goes without saying that "those are the rules". Of course, I'm free to question the rules and I often do, particularly when they don't make sense to me.

 

I've been a pilot for almost 25 years and hold the same grade of pilot's license airline pilots do. I achieved that with a bunch of formal training and a hell of a lot of practice on my own -- so I know what training to a professional standard is all about. I'm not questioning the requirement for training. What I *am* questioning is the method of that training (i.e. the need to attend formal matches). Perhaps my understanding of matches is flawed, but when I think "match", I think "competition", or "test", which is a place where I prove skills I already have -- not a place where I learn those skills.

 

If this is CJ's way of saying "go find someplace that WILL let you draw and fire to develop the skills for draw and fire, and then pass our test, which consists of the results from three competitions", so be it, but I still think that's backwards for a gun club that is supposed to exist to satisfy the needs and goals of its members.

It goes without saying that "those are the rules". Of course, I'm free to question the rules and I often do, particularly when they don't make sense to me.

 

I've been a pilot for almost 25 years and hold the same grade of pilot's license airline pilots do. I achieved that with a bunch of formal training and a hell of a lot of practice on my own -- so I know what training to a professional standard is all about. I'm not questioning the requirement for training. What I *am* questioning is the method of that training (i.e. the need to attend formal matches). Perhaps my understanding of matches is flawed, but when I think "match", I think "competition", or "test", which is a place where I prove skills I already have -- not a place where I learn those skills.

 

If this is CJ's way of saying "go find someplace that WILL let you draw and fire to develop the skills for draw and fire, and then pass our test, which consists of the results from three competitions", so be it, but I still think that's backwards for a gun club that is supposed to exist to satisfy the needs and goals of its members.

 

My first time drawing and firing was at an OBRPC static steel match. I identified myself as a new shooter, and was directed to the "new shooter" squad, and given instruction by a certified instructor. After he was satisfied I competed, and was given advice and further instruction throughout the day. I would imagine the same thing goes at CJRPC.

So the only thing the average member can take into the pits is a rimfire rifle? That's lame. Is it because of the accident a while back?

 

No, because the board is made up of a majority of idiots. This is somehow logical to them.

 

You can obviously take all handguns into the pits. =)

 

Btw, draw and fire badge is not tough to get, just shoot 2 events at CJ I believe. correct me if I am wrong wolfy.

 

No, you can't take handguns over ..45 caliber. Taking your contender with a rifle cartridge will probably get you trouble too depending on who sees you.

 

Also, am I the only one that thinks that saying the badge is for people trying to practice for matches and yet requiring them to attend matches before they have a chance to practice puts the cart before the horse?

 

Just let me train with an "approved instructor" one on one, get him to sign off on X hours of instruction as required by the board and approve the badge. What's so hard about that? Heck, come to think of it, an out of state CCW should get us SOMETHING here, and automatic approval (upon request) for a draw and fire badge should be it.

 

You have never met the board. The requirement to get someone who is competent to sign off that you aren't an idiot is probably one of their better requirements, even if it wasn't well thought out. Not that it will stop idiots from being idiots, but they will then be performing stupid actions they were warned not to.

 

If you had ever tried to deal with the board, the phrase "just let me train with an approved instructor" would either make you break down into laughter or cry. I imagine the only reason league chairman are permitted to vouch for someone not being incompetent is because at some time in the murky past either 1) they were mostly board members or 2) the board was confronted with the notion that doing otherwise would lead to the question of why you permitted them to run matches and supervise shooters in large numbers performing an act that they are incompetent to even judge if someone is capable of doing it safely.

 

I mean seriously, try to explain why only lead rifle ammo? It's what cowboy asked for is the reason why there's an exception. But ask the board about anything else, and you will get some non-explanation based on some certainty that there is some life threatening hazard to a jacketed projectile moving at over 1000fps out of a rifle, but not out of a handgun.

 

Previously, there WAS some basis for concern for ricochet as our pits had swamp iron in them. Since the lead clean up, they are free of large chunks and nice and safe.

 

But, they think they know everything and are competent and you can't convince them otherwise. It would not surprise me if they manage to get us shut down by the EPA or pinelands comission in the process of showing everyone how competent they are.

Edited March 17, 201115 yr by raz-0

raz, thanks for the honest reply. I understand now.

 

Nice to know as well that they give instruction at matches (or at least the first one). That makes me feel a bit better.