Hi, I'm new to the forums and just had a question. I'm probably going to be building my first ar soon. Is it legal for me to buy a stripped lower at a pa gun show? I only ask because last time I was at a gun show the only guy selling ar lowers wouldn't even let me touch them. The shops in my area don't carry any and I'd rather not deal with the whole ffl transfer thing.

I believe AR lowers are considered pistols in the Keystone state and cannot be sold to us. I could be wrong though. But if you really want a stripped lower, you can find them all over the googles and the like.

I had the same experience at a gun show but it's because the guys are afraid, not because they can't.

 

I believe the lowers are rifles unless their serial number was registered as a pistol...so as rifles they follow rifle rules.

Order it online and have it sent to an FFL. I see you are in Woodbridge, I have a great FFL in Marlboro that I use. $42 total out the door including NICS. PM me if you want the details.

 

Aimsurplus has a good deal on Spike's and Surplus Arms and Ammo lowers , and they already have the FFL's info.

Hi, I'm new to the forums and just had a question. I'm probably going to be building my first ar soon. Is it legal for me to buy a stripped lower at a pa gun show? I only ask because last time I was at a gun show the only guy selling ar lowers wouldn't even let me touch them. The shops in my area don't carry any and I'd rather not deal with the whole ffl transfer thing.

 

Umm, did you notice all the guys and girls around you handling handling AR lowers, handguns, machineguns and silencers? You obviously told the guy you were from NJ.

 

ATF recently sent out some strange instructions regarding virgin stripped AR lowers. PSP followed by sending out information to gun dealers that was even stranger. Most gun dealers in PA don't care about AR lowers or the faulty PSP instructions, but some care about stripped lower receivers. Since you're from NJ, there's probably a whole mess of stuff they won't let you touch. Unless it's a plain-old NJ "approved" rifle, you're probably going to get the cold shoulder on FFL registered parts. They are not going to play around with people from NJ, too many unknowns.

I had the same experience at a gun show but it's because the guys are afraid, not because they can't.

 

I believe the lowers are rifles unless their serial number was registered as a pistol...so as rifles they follow rifle rules.

 

I believe that stripped virgin lowers are "other" for the FFL. A lower with a stock attached is a rifle. The serial number on a stripped lower does not have to be registered as a pistol to be made into a pistol - but I am speaking outside of NJ laws. Some people like to have "Pistol" or something engraved on them so that LEO will be less likely to question the short barrels. But there is no law requirring it (not sure about NJ). Of course, if a manufacturer or dealer gives you both an upper and a lower, and the upper has a short barrel, and the lower has no stock (it would be a NFA SBR if it did have a stock), then it IS a pistol.

Hmmm. . .I didn't know about the whole AR lower classified as a pistol thing. I'll have to look deeper into that. If anything I'll just try my luck at a different gun show.

 

@mipafox I'm not completely clear on what you're saying. So would dealers be more inclined to sell me an AR lower reciever if it was complete with a stock attached and everything?

 

@Dan I'll definitely contact you later about that ffl. I live about five minutes away from the New Jersey Firearms Guild and they quoted me about $100+NICS to have one transferred, which is why i wanted to avoid going that route in the first place. But $42 isn't that bad.

 

And thanks for the help guys, much appreciated

Hmmm. . .I didn't know about the whole AR lower classified as a pistol thing. I'll have to look deeper into that. If anything I'll just try my luck at a different gun show.

 

An AR lower is not classified as a pistol. There was a push to do that by the PSP due to confusion over some faulty ATF guidance with reference to stripped receivers.

 

@mipafox I'm not completely clear on what you're saying. So would dealers be more inclined to sell me an AR lower reciever if it was complete with a stock attached and everything?

 

You're from NJ. I have no idea how a particular PA dealer wants to deal with somebody from NJ. Once we get beyond that, AR lowers (with stocks) are "rifles," not "other." I think most would be happy to sell them to you.

 

Since you seem to want (?) a stripped lower receiver, I would buy one online. There are great deals and you don't have to worry about PA dealers' proclivities towards NJ people. As long as you don't get ripped off on the transfer fee from your NJ dealer.

It's a federal thing and lowers - whether complete with A2 stock or whatever, as well as stripped lowers follow the rules for handguns. If you buy in PA it must be shipped to a NJ FFL and transferred to you through their books. You can, however, purchase a complete rifle in PA, as long as you have your FPID and you are supposed to fill out a COE - although some PA dealers don't really care about the COE.

 

The PSP thing is/was a different issue that had to do with some unique PA paperwork - NJ isn't the only state with BS paperwork.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Hmmm. . .I didn't know about the whole AR lower classified as a pistol thing. I'll have to look deeper into that. If anything I'll just try my luck at a different gun show.

 

@mipafox I'm not completely clear on what you're saying. So would dealers be more inclined to sell me an AR lower reciever if it was complete with a stock attached and everything?

 

@Dan I'll definitely contact you later about that ffl. I live about five minutes away from the New Jersey Firearms Guild and they quoted me about $100+NICS to have one transferred, which is why i wanted to avoid going that route in the first place. But $42 isn't that bad.

 

And thanks for the help guys, much appreciated

 

Jeeze, $100+NICS? That's highway robbery.

It's a federal thing and lowers - whether complete with A2 stock or whatever, as well as stripped lowers follow the rules for handguns. If you buy in PA it must be shipped to a NJ FFL and transferred to you through their books. You can, however, purchase a complete rifle in PA, as long as you have your FPID and you are supposed to fill out a COE - although some PA dealers don't really care about the COE.

 

Wow. I can't believe it actually went that way. Figuratively speaking, that is. I do believe you. I'll remember to look into that if it ever comes up on my end.

It's a federal thing and lowers - whether complete with A2 stock or whatever, as well as stripped lowers follow the rules for handguns. If you buy in PA it must be shipped to a NJ FFL and transferred to you through their books. You can, however, purchase a complete rifle in PA, as long as you have your FPID and you are supposed to fill out a COE - although some PA dealers don't really care about the COE.

 

Actually, do you have the details on this? I'm kind of curious at the moment, even though I'm not buying any rifle lowers.

Actually, do you have the details on this?

 

 

Can't give you the cite, I only know this because I bought a complete lower (with A2 stock) from Chris at Advanced Armament in Pittston, PA. I thought it would be the same as buying a rifle - especially with the stock on it. Chris told me, and my FFL here in NJ confirmed it, that it must be handled like a handgun - shipped to an FFL and transferred.

 

Stripped lowers are why they changed the 4473 and they are now designated as "other" since they can be built into a handgun or rifle.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Can't give you the cite, I only know this because I bought a complete lower (with A2 stock) from Chris at Advanced Armament in Pittston, PA. I thought it would be the same as buying a rifle - especially with the stock on it. Chris told me, and my FFL here in NJ confirmed it, that it must be handled like a handgun - shipped to an FFL and transferred.

 

Stripped lowers are why they changed the 4473 and they are now designated as "other" since they can be built into a handgun or rifle.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

OK, considering that, I think he was wrong. I don't have a citation either, and I could be wrong as well. But I remember there was confusion about this with dealers when these ATF and then PSP notices came out and I don't believe a lower receiver must be transferred as a handgun under federal law. Didn't pay close attention, could be wrong.

This pretty much sums up my understanding of the situation:

 

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/108603-selling-stripped-lower.html

 

I was going to throw out there that I thought ATF tried to require people must be 21 to buy a lower (I think they might), but they are treated as rifles or other and not handguns.

 

What I posted does not prove it, because it is incomplete (and internet), but it does summarize my vague understanding.

This makes no sense.

 

ATF might consider a stripped lower as a handgun, and require that it be xfered to an FFL in your home state. Then once in your home state (NJ), it is considered a rifle, and you can have it xfer'd to you without a PP.

 

Another gray area is once you have your stripped lower in NJ, what if you want to make it a pistol. Do you need a PP, and transfer it to yourself once you put the pistol buffer and upper on? This is assuming you can build it within the limits of the AWB rules around SA pistols... (to my knowledge the Bushy Carbon 15 type 97 is the only one regarding weight restrictions).

 

If the thing had a pistol buffer on it, I would say that's a different story. I'm talking a fully stripped lower.

 

So much is wrong with state and federal laws...

One may only purchase long guns from an out-of-state dealer.

 

A stripped lower, or a lower with a stock is not a long gun. Therefore, they must be transferred through a dealer in one's state of residence. AND, the purchaser must be at least 21 YOA.

 

Search the ATF Newsletters.

Licensees are reminded that firearm frames, receivers, and other firearms that are neither handguns nor long guns (rifles or shotguns) are considered “Other Firearms.” They cannot be sold or delivered by a licensee to any person under 21 years of age. Additionally, 18 U.S.C. 922(3) states that a licensee shall not sell or deliver any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person who does not reside in the State in which the licensee’s place of business or activity is located; this restriction includes handguns, pistol grip firearms utilizing shotgun ammunition, and frames and receivers.

Thanks Paul, I thought that's how it goes.

One may only purchase long guns from an out-of-state dealer.

 

A stripped lower, or a lower with a stock is not a long gun. Therefore, they must be transferred through a dealer in one's state of residence. AND, the purchaser must be at least 21 YOA.

 

Search the ATF Newsletters.

 

 

Good stuff. I've never heard of ATF Newsletters before. thanks

 

So the ATF considers them Other Firearms. I can't find a definition in the NJ statues in which they specify that the serial number containing receiver is defined as a firearm. I guess they go by the ATF definition of "other firearm", and handle them as rifles/shotguns under NJ law.

Yes. In New Jersey, it is either long gun or handgun.

Well looks like I'm going to be ordering the lower online then. Thanks a lot guys for clearing that up for me.