So, my local PD illegally enforces one-handgun-per-month by only allowing me to apply for 1 permit every 30 days. Absolutely refuses to issue more than one at a time even though I know the law and pointed out the March 30, 2010 letter the State Police gave me... Doesn't matter. OK fine, I can't complain too much because on that 30th day I can walk in and get my permit, and have learned just to have my latest acquisition lined by for transfer, but it is a burden because the clerk's hours are limited and I must take a part of a workday off to go for each permit. They also don't re-run backgrounds until 6 months has passed, so it's not financially out of hand.

 

Now here's where I am hacked off. I am in the process of acquiring a collection and talked at length to the State Police to understand the details, procedures, and my right - this is how I got the March 30, 2010 letter to begin with, asked here, and so-on for applying for a collector's exemption. I've never done such a group buy in this State of ridiculous gun control laws so needed to educate myself... So I fill out my SP-015 and then line up everything needed for the SP-016 (complicated because seller is out of State, but handled). Have all my paperwork in order, show up to the station, submit it with a ST-033 for the number of permits and the clerk loses her mind because this is out of whatever tiny niche she can process and tells me I can't have more than one handgun a month. Not so, fine, bring on the Chief. He sorta was aware of the process, but has never done one before. I tell him there is a letter that was sent to him by the State Police that outlines it, and here are the facts from it as further described by the Det. Sgt. from the State Police who oversees these. I show him that all my paperwork is in order, and thought we were good to go. My local PD just finished my 6 month background re-check in February, so all they really needed to do is send my SP-015 and -016 up to West Trenton and then give me the permits when/if the State Police approves the exemption. Fine, good, right? NOT!

 

Keep in mind, the whole point of such an exemption is to accomodate an opportunity that won't exist with one-handgun-per-month...

 

So, this was handed in 2.5 weeks ago, and today I get a call from one of my oldest friends asking why he's being asked to fill out the same form again from my local PD... Puzzled, I give HR a call, and sure enough, they got another employment verification in today's mail. Ring up reference two, ditto! What the??? Give a call to the local PD clerk and ask for the reason why my information is being re-checked. She answered because "you submitted that exemption, and it says the exemptions are handled outside of the one-handgun-per-month." Ok, that's true, but why another background because you (local PD) just did this 1 month ago. I ask did you send my SP-015 and -016 to West Trenton? She answered no, we need your background information back first and for you to come in with a money order for $18 for the State check! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!? I ask if she understands that the collector's exemption is supposed to be a rapid vehicle to accomodate a collector's opportunity? You just finished my background, and legally I am permitted to request as many permits as I wish and pay for and they are to be issued! I get the "we'll that's not what the Chief does and we'll move as soon as your background information is back and you pay." I ask for the Chief, and told he is on vacation till next Wednesday! The State Police already told me it's 30-45 days for them to turn it around, if my local PD is not going to submit until my background is re-re-checked, that's going to make it about 30 more days on top of it for 60-75 days from my submission! Guess what, there is no way the seller will wait this long! I am fit to be tied. I want my local PD to be educated about the proper handling and enforcement of the gun regulations, but I also fear retribution if I make the waves by having the State Police make a call, which they were all about doing. I live in a tiny boro, and can see it now - tickets for 1 mph over, ticket because my parking light is blown out, I crossed the street a little sideways, whatever. This is going to turn out to be a gigantic waste of my time and money putting this deal together because my local PD cannot be bothered to understand and act within the law here.

 

Any sage advice??? Besides the obvious of moving out of New Jersey - that will likely happen, but not for a bit.

IMHO, you should have the NJSP or an attorney call your PD. Make waves. If you don't stand up for your rights, no one else will.

 

Next step would be to write a letter to the AG Office and cc your Political Representative. The louder you are, the more the people will notice.

 

Or, you can just piss and moan about it on a forum like everybody else does and take it up the a**.

 

Your mileage may vary.

I know you don't want to hear this, but bite the bullet call the State Police and tell them your boro PD is not handling the exemption for one pistol per month in accordance to state law. Sometimes going above their heads and getting the State Police involved is just what they need. And if you fear retribution, and harassed constantly then get the court system involved. Take a stand and show them people are not to be messed with and they are no where even close to above the law they 'swore' to uphold and protect.

 

EDIT: PK90 beat me to it lol.

Why cannot my local PD follow the law & guidance???

 

when it comes to people who are lazy and lack respect.. it is far easier for them to just do whatever they feel like doing..

Looking for the sage advice. In other words, what has worked for other forum members in situations similar because it happens all over this state based on reports here and on other firearms forums. Of course I will speak to the Chief upon his return, but there is more than one way to fight a battle, and sometimes diplomacy can be the better route over accusation. No-one likes to be called dumb, even if they are, and who likes to be scolded? The local PD is obviously uniformed, even though they think otherwise. I will meet with the Chief, with the March 30, 2010 letter in-hand, and if he has a different interpretation, I'll suggest we contact the State Police together. However, unless there is a Trooper here that can point to the contrary, the State Police have general authority, and where local police exist, the local police have specific authority. So Troopers don't necessarily overrule or preside over local PD as I understand how NJ has established the State Police.

 

However, the crux of my specific matter will not be changed. By the time I meet the Chief, 3 weeks will have passed and I may not see the State Police's approval of the exemption in time for the seller even though all my references, verifications, and SBI will be back by the time he is. That's the rub.

Rob... go to the seller and see if the deposit will hold the collection. I dont have any experience with what your dealing with, I am about to start the NJSP involvement here in Cherry Hill. But I would get NJSPFD involved ASAP and see if you can request a meeting with the Chief for THURSDAY where you can call the NJSP together with all your current paperwork in hand. This would be very diplomatic in my opinion, if you coach it as a clearing of views, educating yourself and being able to ask the chief questions at the same time.

 

Your town is small, I can create a mental image of your clerk and it aint a good one. You either charm their pants off or press them until they realize they are wrong. Your relations with the clerk will be destroyed, but I dont think that will bother you.

Good advise already above but to loose the collection over there stupidity is wrong, as was stated would the seller consider a down payment to hold them for you, and if not you could always buy the collection and have it sent to a FFL, being it's out of state your going to have to go through one anyway and see if you can work out a deal with the FFL here to hold them until the paperwork is completed.

 

Harry

Or, just pay the seller the full amount and have him hold them for you.

the bigger problem is that if you do make waves and complain...they can simply deny your permit for "public safety "...and that WILL haunt you for the rest of your life, no matter where you live. I sit on the public safety committe on my town council, I can tell you that if it wasn't the fact that we have a great cheif here, That would definetly be the procedure. The guy in the PD don't want anyone having guns.....

What you need to do is have a quiet conversation with an attorney and file a suit....trust me.

The day the papers hit the town manager or administrator and he/she sees that the pd is violating the law, they will cease and decist on those extra items...they simply cannot afford to be litigated against now...especially in budget season.

Trust me on that....

OR

once the town attorney gets the suit, he/she will advise the town they cannot risk that suit because the laws are clear. You could possibly stand to win a considerable settlement actually if they are stupid(and you will)

Can you imagine what it would be like if the government worked FOR us instead of against us?

 

The government has morphed into an entity designed to regulate all of our activities rather than an entity designed to enhance our lives.

 

It's such a shame too, if the entire county pulled in the same direction, there would be an economic boom that even democrats couldn't tax out of existence.

 

 

As others have said, it's time to involve the state police. If nothing else, your grease the path for the next poor schlub that runs into problems at your fiefdom.

 

The next step, longer term is to find out when, where, how and whatever the Chief is next up for election and actively campaign against him. It's not hard in a local election to sway voters. Stand out in front of your grocery store with papers "Our local chief breaks the law, is this someone you want as enforcing laws in this town??" It doesn't matter what the fine print says even though it's a true story, 85% of the people only read the headline.

This is something that the lawyers for the second amendment foundation should be involved in. I know they have their hands busy with the whole CCW thing but this affects a lot of us too.

Just a quick clarification on my dilemma before heading out to visit family this weekend... Had I given more background, it would probably be clearer as to why I am so jammed up by my local PD, but I was still too steamed when originally posting to roll out the nuisances.

 

I have given the seller a deposit to hold it, never the problem there. This is a collector I have known for many years, and he is also an FFL, so he was always willing to work with me. The issue is that he has now sold his home (very quickly actually), closing May 16, and he and his wife will be moving to enjoy their retirement in Italy! So, the collection has to be dealt with by then. I already have a trusted NJ-FFL involved, needed to for the SP-016, but the collection is more than he is comfortable with holding, especially if the exemption were to be denied and it has to be pieced one-at-a-time, otherwise I would have already paid in full and had it in a NJ safe. I spoke with the seller this morning, and he's going to see if there is another FFL out on his end that may be interested in help to facilitate by holding.

 

Gerry, you are reading my mind as the first approach toward the issue.

I know you have a trusted FFL and not sure how many guns your talking about, but you might want to shop around and see if someone in you area, or one of the FFL that frequent this forum might be interested in helping you out. Maybe even work out a little extra TIP to make the transaction worth it for what sounds like more than a gun or 2.

 

Just kicking out idea being i see you really want this collection and hate to see you loose it.

 

I was going to say if it's that big of a collection and I don't know the process, but might there be a way to add to the number of exemptions at this time being the process hasn't been completed with the state and deal with maybe 2 FFL's

 

Hope it works out, and we get to see some pic of this collection when it's completed.

 

Harry

go see a lawyer, have them write a letter to the town administrator/manager/police cheif and or the council. inform them that they are in violation of the law and you intend to sue...trust me, you will no longer need to fill any additional forms out. I am telling you, the towns are terrified of this...

Also, write to the mayor, tell him you are a one issue voter and this is that issue.

Also, write to the mayor, tell him you are a one issue voter and this is that issue.

he will laugh after you leave...1 vote is not gonna make him do anything(i am sorry to be truthful)

Just to clarify your situation because I'm not sure I understand exactly what the problem is.

 

If you applied for more permits and your town is doing another backround check, then your town IS following NJSP procedure (regardless of the fact that it was done a month ago).

 

If you already have your permits and are applying for a multi gun exemption ONLY, then your town IS NOT following NJSP procedure by doing another backround check.

he will laugh after you leave...1 vote is not gonna make him do anything(i am sorry to be truthful)

 

I actually got a call from my mayor and its a very large town. I was so shocked I listened to his paltitudes without firing back.

 

You may only be one vote, but when you count your familiy and friends and promise to let every gun owner in town know his position they may act a but differently.

Just to clarify your situation because I'm not sure I understand exactly what the problem is.

 

If you applied for more permits and your town is doing another backround check, then your town IS following NJSP procedure (regardless of the fact that it was done a month ago).

 

If you already have your permits and are applying for a multi gun exemption ONLY, then your town IS NOT following NJSP procedure by doing another backround check.

 

I'll sum it up quickly as it was probably missed between various posts. When local PDs were consolidated the other year, I lost my actual local Boro PD, and came part of a combined PD of two Boros. My former local PD understood and followed everything properly - meaning I could file ONE ST-033 and get as many permits as I wanted to pay for with the ONE filing. I would get 6 at a time to be realistic of the use period with extension. Fast forward to the new combined PD under another Chief, and they have only allowed ONE permit per EACH ST-033 filed. This is in clear violation of the law, I know. However, I've lived within it because the way they have run it, just like clock-work, I have been able to pick up my next permit 30 days after the last one issued by just filling out a new ST-033 right there at the station. Their procedure has been to re-check background every 6 months. Not too inconvenient to me other than I have to take off time from work to pick up my permit each month to make the clerk's hours. I just had my 6-month re-check, and I knew I was going for this collection, and I wanted to file for all of the permits needed at that time, but the local PD won't do this, and they've got the entire process jumbled at my burden. However, I think this is resolved (next post in thread).

This morning I met with the Chief, the clerk, and had copies of the NJ code and the March 2010 letter with me. I took the diplomatic approach in seeking that we all get on the same page and clear the air because I am confused (versus telling them they are). I told them how I understand the regulations to be, and that I researched a collector's exemption at great length, including speaking with two of the Det. Sgts. at the NJSP Firearms Unit, to be sure I could make the deal within the regulations. I also openly offered that time is now a factor due to the seller's situation, and the point of such an exemption is to allow fast action upon a collector's opportunity. The Chief indicated that the State has provided much mis-direction and re-direction to them regarding handgun purchases, and shared his own personal viewpoint, which was actually good to hear. He asked to see my copy of the March 30th letter, but questioned it as it was unsigned. He asked the clerk to look for the official one, and surprise, she couldn't locate it in department files. Fortunately, the Chief had no problem calling the NJSP with me, and better yet, one of the Det. Sgts. I had previously talked to answered the call. We had a very good conversation I think, and it was made clear, with the clerk keeping notes, that I can have as many permits as I wish to pay for, even if I cannot use them, with ONE filing of an ST-033. Moreover, the Det. Sgt. found that my SP-015/15A/16/16A were received on Tuesday, after the clerk told me they wouldn't be sent until my background information came back, which I know it hasn't as one reference is out of town, and I pay the $18, which I haven't. So, it is obvious to me that someone figured out they were in error after my call with the clerk on the 18th in order to get my paperwork to W. Trenton by the 22nd!

 

In the end, I walked out of the station with 5 purchase permits in-hand off my last “regular” ST-033. We also agreed I’d pay nothing for the additional background for the exemption since it was already pulled and my references are going to say the same thing. The Chief and Det. Sgt. Were sympathetic over the waste time, but I don’t know if that will amount to a hill of beans, but it should be fine with the NJSP already working on the investigation for potential approval.

Congratulations man for not taking this like a chump and congrats to the PD for being willing to sit down with you regarding this issue.

Outstanding. I think the really big win here is the NJSP cooperation to the level you were shown. Everyone one this board should take notes on this case and use it as an example as to how to achieve and standup for your rights. Great job Rob.

Thanks! Gerry and all, I dealt directly with the Det. Sgts. from the Firearms Investigation Unit. They were great with everything since my first call, and even promptly returned voicemails left for them. Honestly, the most difficult person to deal with throughout all of this has been the clerk!

Thanks! Gerry and all, I dealt directly with the Det. Sgts. from the Firearms Investigation Unit. They were great with everything since my first call, and even promptly returned voicemails left for them. Honestly, the most difficult person to deal with throughout all of this has been the clerk!

 

Let's hope that changes now too...

Good for you. Glad it worked out.

So, what do you get when cooler heads, a bit of mutual respect, having all your paperwork in order, and diplomacy prevail?

 

You get your entire collector's exemption approved by the NJSP and permits from the local PD!

 

Could have knocked me over with a feather when my local PD clerk called my house this morning telling me the purchase permits were ready! I ran right over and picked up the stack of them! When I received my authorized copy of the SP-015 back, it was actually signed off on last Friday! I'm guessing since the Sgt. Det. at the NJSP had it in front of him for the call, he decided to just handle it because it was nowhere near the review timeframe discussed!

 

I'm glad I did my ranting and venting here allowing me keep a level-headed approach with the local PD. It not only paid off for me personally, but now other handgun enthusiasts in the Boro can also benefit from changing of the ways through better understanding. Now only if that could be the case at the State government level...

Glad this worked out for you and I am extremely jealous. I will be looking to add the collectors exemtion to my repetoire sooon.

Taking a one side approach in a dilemma like this never works to your advantage. You did what any person trying to get something done the right way should. Attack the issue from a mis-informed attitude, not your wrong im right. people never like to be told there wrong, especially when there in charge of the screw up. This a great example of how to get anything done in life effectively. You may have wasted a good part of your day, but you just saved countless hours of other peoples time in your town.

Congrats!

Great news, glad everything worked out.

 

Harry