http://www.nbc15.com/news/headlines/Gun_Shops_See_Boost_in_Business_Thanks_to_Concealed_Carry_124395819.html

 

Could this help NJ in the long run?

http://www.nbc15.com/news/headlines/Gun_Shops_See_Boost_in_Business_Thanks_to_Concealed_Carry_124395819.html

 

Could this help NJ in the long run?

 

No, because NJ already has the right to carry.

 

 

The people of NJ don't have the right to carry, but that's an immaterial point.

http://www.nbc15.com/news/headlines/Gun_Shops_See_Boost_in_Business_Thanks_to_Concealed_Carry_124395819.html

 

Could this help NJ in the long run?

 

Keep in mind, I'm no expert, and I'm incredibly pessimistic, but I doubt it'll help. We're pretty much just going to keep losing rights I think.

let's all be honest. NJ will NEVER EVER be a "shall issue" state.

http://www.nbc15.com/news/headlines/Gun_Shops_See_Boost_in_Business_Thanks_to_Concealed_Carry_124395819.html

 

Could this help NJ in the long run?

 

I think that the answer is "probably not, but it can't hurt."

 

You might be able to bolster a legal case by pointing out that yet another state went "shall-issue." But I don't think that will make much difference. I can't see politicians suddenly "seeing the light" and getting Senator Van Drew's bill out of committee.

 

let's all be honest. NJ will NEVER EVER be a "shall issue" state.

 

Not with that attitude it won't...

 

There are basically three ways of getting CCW reform passed:

#1. The gun-owning population increases from 12% to 20% and becomes an important voting block. Politicians start to listen. Reform is enacted.

#2. The current legislature or next legislative iteration votes for reform.

#3. We seek judicial remedies.

 

I think that #1 is impossible. That would require some pretty extensive outreach to the tune of 688,000 new gun owners in the state.

 

#2 is not possible as well, for reason I'm going to explain below:

 

Take a look at the map below and think about the areas inside that red box and why they are special. Note: This is a big map, I'll keep going down below.

 

 

Here's what's special about it: Most of the population of New Jersey lives in that box. Now what's so special about that box?

 

That box basically contains Camden, Trenton, Newark and Jersey City. These are the four cities with the highest levels of criminal gun activity. There are a good many people inside those cities who are victims of gun violence every day. A lot of them wouldn't shed a tear if all handguns simply fell off the face of the Earth. I'd imagine that there aren't very many legal guns in these areas because people are just too busy working to go through the necessary paperwork.

 

What else is in that box? Some of the most wealthy communities: Cherry Hill, Mount Laurel, Princeton, West Windsor, Millburn. People in those towns simply see no need for guns because their lives just don't intersect with violent crime. You can talk about 2A rights until you are blue in the face with somebody from Millburn, but they won't care because they don't see a pressing need for a weapon. The average minivan driving mom just doesn't see need for a gun when she's dropping Jaden and Skyler off at Gymboree so she can get her pedicure in peace.

 

There are about 26 legislative districts packed into that box. There are 40 legislative districts in the state. The math is not on our side.

 

Now Let's talk about what's outside of the box: everybody else. These are the people who could use concealed carry because they live in Salem, Vineland, Browns Mills, Lakewood and Toms River. These are the towns that have good neighborhoods but plenty of rough neighborhoods as well. This is where the majority of the state's gun owners live: the the people of the Pine Barons in Jackson, the farmers in Cumberland County. These are the ones that see a need because they are driving for 20 minutes down long stretches of dark pineland road to get milk at 1AM because they just realized that they are out and their kids need it for their morning cereal. If you've ever had your car break down on the Black Horse Pike at 11:00 at night, you know how scary it can be. You are in the Middle of Nowhere, and help is very far away.

 

I doubt that we will ever have the votes to pass CCW reform unless we flip some of those people in the box, and that just isn't going to happen without a lot of 2A outreach and seeding the population inside the box.

 

The best best course of action at this point to seek judicial remedy.

 

It's far easier to convince a single judge than it is to convince an entire legislative district. This is in the works, but it takes time... and money. But I honestly think that we will see some kind of judicially enacted CCW reform within the next 3 years.

We may not be the largest group, but seeing as how voter turn out is really low, if we get politically organized, make ourselves known, etc. etc. we can still have an impact. a fully mobilized voting block of 15-20% can easily outweigh the weight of the average people who don't support us, or w/e. That might be a way to do this.

title should read "WI government recognizing right to carry" the right is already there.. has been for a long time.. unfortunately some state governments (ours included) just don't recognize it..

title should read "WI government recognizing right to carry" the right is already there.. has been for a long time.. unfortunately some state governments (ours included) just don't recognize it..

 

Oh that little old thing called the Second Amendment you mean, that 220 year old thing??

 

Harry

I still don't understand how any state can go above the 2A. Open/CCW are our RIGHT for f's sake!

cause libtards don't recognize the Constitution.

I still don't understand how any state can go above the 2A. Open/CCW are our RIGHT for f's sake!

 

Because THEY know what`s good for you.......you don`t know whats good for you......THEY know what`s good for you

 

Because THEY know what`s good for you.......you don`t know whats good for you......THEY know what`s good for you

 

Well that I know (they're control freaks), but I still don't see what gives them the authority to go over the 2A. Wasn't there a 2A victory in the SCOTUS a couple years ago that dealt with handguns?

The govt cannot outright arbitrarily decide who gets to exercise an individual right, as what NJ does with the "justifiable" clause in the CCW permit process. Completely unconstitutional now that 2A is incorporated.

 

Now... what the govt can do is to have laws on that make abusing those rights in order to do harm illegal. Examples include the whole not yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, setting up a protest march on the GSP in order to stop traffic to protest gas guzzlers. Stuff like that.

 

Right to peaceably carry a sidearm for protection? Absolutely.

 

Now decide to go pointing it at a bystander just for fun or to intimidate them? No... that is aggravated assault. Notice how the crime was not possessing and carrying the gun, it is all about abusing that right to commit a crime of which is illegal.

 

The more people understand this, the better. This is why when the anti's go around spewing more "common sense and reasonable gun laws" it gets my blood boiling. There are already the abuse laws we need on the books like armed robbery, aggravated assault, assault with a deadly weapon, murder, etc etc and so on.

everyone on this forum should help others who don't know how to go about getting permits, believe it or not alot of people don't even know they have the right to own a gun or rifle. since last year I have learned alot on this forum and passed on what I learned to help some of my friends through the process of getting there permits. if we all did this a few times a year it could turn things around in our favor...

I think that the answer is "probably not, but it can't hurt."

 

You might be able to bolster a legal case by pointing out that yet another state went "shall-issue." But I don't think that will make much difference. I can't see politicians suddenly "seeing the light" and getting Senator Van Drew's bill out of committee.

 

 

 

Not with that attitude it won't...

 

There are basically three ways of getting CCW reform passed:

#1. The gun-owning population increases from 12% to 20% and becomes an important voting block. Politicians start to listen. Reform is enacted.

#2. The current legislature or next legislative iteration votes for reform.

#3. We seek judicial remedies.

 

I think that #1 is impossible. That would require some pretty extensive outreach to the tune of 688,000 new gun owners in the state.

 

#2 is not possible as well, for reason I'm going to explain below:

 

Take a look at the map below and think about the areas inside that red box and why they are special. Note: This is a big map, I'll keep going down below.

 

 

Here's what's special about it: Most of the population of New Jersey lives in that box. Now what's so special about that box?

 

That box basically contains Camden, Trenton, Newark and Jersey City. These are the four cities with the highest levels of criminal gun activity. There are a good many people inside those cities who are victims of gun violence every day. A lot of them wouldn't shed a tear if all handguns simply fell off the face of the Earth. I'd imagine that there aren't very many legal guns in these areas because people are just too busy working to go through the necessary paperwork.

 

What else is in that box? Some of the most wealthy communities: Cherry Hill, Mount Laurel, Princeton, West Windsor, Millburn. People in those towns simply see no need for guns because their lives just don't intersect with violent crime. You can talk about 2A rights until you are blue in the face with somebody from Millburn, but they won't care because they don't see a pressing need for a weapon. The average minivan driving mom just doesn't see need for a gun when she's dropping Jaden and Skyler off at Gymboree so she can get her pedicure in peace.

 

There are about 26 legislative districts packed into that box. There are 40 legislative districts in the state. The math is not on our side.

 

Now Let's talk about what's outside of the box: everybody else. These are the people who could use concealed carry because they live in Salem, Vineland, Browns Mills, Lakewood and Toms River. These are the towns that have good neighborhoods but plenty of rough neighborhoods as well. This is where the majority of the state's gun owners live: the the people of the Pine Barons in Jackson, the farmers in Cumberland County. These are the ones that see a need because they are driving for 20 minutes down long stretches of dark pineland road to get milk at 1AM because they just realized that they are out and their kids need it for their morning cereal. If you've ever had your car break down on the Black Horse Pike at 11:00 at night, you know how scary it can be. You are in the Middle of Nowhere, and help is very far away.

 

I doubt that we will ever have the votes to pass CCW reform unless we flip some of those people in the box, and that just isn't going to happen without a lot of 2A outreach and seeding the population inside the box.

 

The best best course of action at this point to seek judicial remedy.

 

It's far easier to convince a single judge than it is to convince an entire legislative district. This is in the works, but it takes time... and money. But I honestly think that we will see some kind of judicially enacted CCW reform within the next 3 years.

 

Good post. I live in Millburn, and have guns. My arguement against the "we live in a nice area is...." crooks don't break into houses in crappy areas....there is nothing to steal...

Sure there is: drugs. The theives breaking into nice areas are probably looking for something different (or a bigger payload of drugs)

I think that the answer is "probably not, but it can't hurt."

 

You might be able to bolster a legal case by pointing out that yet another state went "shall-issue." But I don't think that will make much difference. I can't see politicians suddenly "seeing the light" and getting Senator Van Drew's bill out of committee.

 

 

 

Not with that attitude it won't...

 

There are basically three ways of getting CCW reform passed:

#1. The gun-owning population increases from 12% to 20% and becomes an important voting block. Politicians start to listen. Reform is enacted.

#2. The current legislature or next legislative iteration votes for reform.

#3. We seek judicial remedies.

 

I think that #1 is impossible. That would require some pretty extensive outreach to the tune of 688,000 new gun owners in the state.

 

#2 is not possible as well, for reason I'm going to explain below:

 

Take a look at the map below and think about the areas inside that red box and why they are special. Note: This is a big map, I'll keep going down below.

 

 

Here's what's special about it: Most of the population of New Jersey lives in that box. Now what's so special about that box?

 

That box basically contains Camden, Trenton, Newark and Jersey City. These are the four cities with the highest levels of criminal gun activity. There are a good many people inside those cities who are victims of gun violence every day. A lot of them wouldn't shed a tear if all handguns simply fell off the face of the Earth. I'd imagine that there aren't very many legal guns in these areas because people are just too busy working to go through the necessary paperwork.

 

What else is in that box? Some of the most wealthy communities: Cherry Hill, Mount Laurel, Princeton, West Windsor, Millburn. People in those towns simply see no need for guns because their lives just don't intersect with violent crime. You can talk about 2A rights until you are blue in the face with somebody from Millburn, but they won't care because they don't see a pressing need for a weapon. The average minivan driving mom just doesn't see need for a gun when she's dropping Jaden and Skyler off at Gymboree so she can get her pedicure in peace.

 

There are about 26 legislative districts packed into that box. There are 40 legislative districts in the state. The math is not on our side.

 

Now Let's talk about what's outside of the box: everybody else. These are the people who could use concealed carry because they live in Salem, Vineland, Browns Mills, Lakewood and Toms River. These are the towns that have good neighborhoods but plenty of rough neighborhoods as well. This is where the majority of the state's gun owners live: the the people of the Pine Barons in Jackson, the farmers in Cumberland County. These are the ones that see a need because they are driving for 20 minutes down long stretches of dark pineland road to get milk at 1AM because they just realized that they are out and their kids need it for their morning cereal. If you've ever had your car break down on the Black Horse Pike at 11:00 at night, you know how scary it can be. You are in the Middle of Nowhere, and help is very far away.

 

I doubt that we will ever have the votes to pass CCW reform unless we flip some of those people in the box, and that just isn't going to happen without a lot of 2A outreach and seeding the population inside the box.

 

The best best course of action at this point to seek judicial remedy.

 

It's far easier to convince a single judge than it is to convince an entire legislative district. This is in the works, but it takes time... and money. But I honestly think that we will see some kind of judicially enacted CCW reform within the next 3 years.

Good post. Bergen (#1) Essex (#2) and Middlesex (#3) counties, the three most densely populated, represent 2.5 million people. There are over 900,000 people in Bergen.