I chatted with someone last night @ the forum and got some answers but I wanted to put this out there for more opinions.

 

I cleaned my Saiga over the weekend after 500 rounds cycled through. It was decently dirty... but nothing crazy. The thing is… I have a permanently attached AK74 style brake on there. So my problem was… every time I ran the Jag through (which was quite a few times) I was striking the crown of the barrel with the Jag. I mean… I wasn’t hitting it hard and I was doing my best to guide it through carefully but there was almost no way to avoid it. You can’t use a muzzle guide… it won’t do anything for obvious reason.

 

Not that this gun is a tack driver to begin with but do you think I’m killing any accuracy this rifle has by striking the crown with the jag? It was an aluminum jag and I was afraid I was damaging the rifle.

 

Any opinions? Ideas?

 

Thanks Fellas.

If the brake is the style I think it is, it shouldn't affect accuracy. Reason being, the diameter of the opening of the muzzle at the end of the brake will be wider than the projectile.

 

If the brake is up against the barrel with no portion extending past that point it might hurt accuracy a little bit, because the jag will rub the rifling causing it to wear out.

 

Can you put up pics? I'd like to see the brake.

Aluminum and brass are still softer than steel. Muzzle crowns wore out more from steel cleaning rods than the jags pushed by them.

 

Maybe you can make something for your AK74 like I did for my M1A's muzzle?

 

Since I have to clean the barrel from the muzzle, I made myself a simple bore guide. I took an empty 12 ga. shell, knocked out the primer, and drilled an opening slight enough to fit my .30 cal. Dewey rod through. Slip the empty hull over the muzzle's flash hider as it will be a snug fit and because of such stays in place. Hulls like the Rem. Premier or compression-formed Winchester AA hulls have a tapered diameter on the inner walls so as they slip on they form a tight self-centering fit. I think it works great for my application. You may have to trial and error some scenarios to see if you can work something for yours.

can always clean from the chamber end instead. and again, unless youre using a steel rod, youre not going to hurt your barrel. whatever aluminum, brass, bronze, plastic tip you have was made out of that material for a reason....it wont hurt the barrel.

If the brake is the style I think it is, it shouldn't affect accuracy. Reason being, the diameter of the opening of the muzzle at the end of the brake will be wider than the projectile.

 

If the brake is up against the barrel with no portion extending past that point it might hurt accuracy a little bit, because the jag will rub the rifling causing it to wear out.

 

Can you put up pics? I'd like to see the brake.

 

 

Here is a link to an earlier thread where I posted pics of the rifle.

 

My link

Goodness gracious, just use a bore snake and be done with it!

 

With the AK, just hold the bolt open and run it through, or use a rubber band to keep the bolt back. Or even easier, just field strip the thing. Or even more easier, just don't clean it. It is an AK after all.

Goodness gracious, just use a bore snake and be done with it!

 

With the AK, just hold the bolt open and run it through, or use a rubber band to keep the bolt back. Or even easier, just field strip the thing. Or even more easier, just don't clean it. It is an AK after all.

 

 

Lol... good answers. I hear ya. LMMFAO! I know its an AK and I'm sure it will run just fine never cleaning it but not cleaning it at all or cleaning it half way isn't really my M.O.

 

Thanks for the options though... they are definitely real ones! LMAO!

Since I have to clean the barrel from the muzzle, I made myself a simple bore guide. I took an empty 12 ga. shell, knocked out the primer, and drilled an opening slight enough to fit my .30 cal. Dewey rod through.

 

Very inventive! Great idea. Thank you for the idea.

It won't hurt accuracy. The diameter of the crown is larger than the bullet. It was the style I was thinking of. Or just use DA's method and use a bore snake.

I dont think you guys understand what a crown is. If the crown is bigger than the diameter of the bullet, then you have a worn out muzzle! Saying that the crown is supposed to be bigger than bullet diameter is like saying the outside diameter of the barrel is smaller than the bullet. It makes less sense than calling a mag a clip!

Glenn,

 

I've actually been waiting for you to chime in because I know you know a lot about AK's. Forget about the comment mgralley said regarding the diameter of the crown... that will just turn this thread into an argument.

 

I just simply wanted to know if I'm damaging or affecting the accuracy of the rifle by striking the very end/tip of the barrel as I feed the jag through the permanently attached Brake? As you already know this style brake doesn't line up exactly even with the exit of the barrel. Basically... the hole at the end of the brake is larger than the hole at the end of the barrel, so when you feed the rod through, sometimes you strike the very end or tip of the barrel with the jag. Reading many of your posts over time I felt you should have an opinion on the subject. Any thoughts?

If you are carefull, you should be able to avoid striking the crown. Depending on how flexable your rod is, you may actually be able to clean it from the rear. Boresnakes suck, so dont even go that route. You shouldnt be going in too much with the jag itself, what I do is I do 10 passes with a solvent soaked brush, jag untill clear (this is usually only 2-3 passes) then I will use a slotted patch holder with copper solvent untill clear, then dry patches and oil. Since you are not really using the jag much it shouldnt be a problem to go slow and be careful. Will a strike from an aluminum jag mess it up? I dont know, the slightest nick on the edge will screw up accuracy, but then again, would you ever notice on an AK? I'de be more concerned if it was a precision bolt gun, lol...

I like the Smart Straw on the WD40 can, it lets me get a nice spray all into the barrel from the receiver. I let it drip dry. I do the same thing with the gas system. I put automotive bearing grease on the carrier and rails. I don't really clean the receiver I just make sure theres a little grease on the carrier and bolt. Rifle still shoots fine at 200 yards and I shoot corrosive mostly.

I like the Smart Straw on the WD40 can, it lets me get a nice spray all into the barrel from the receiver. I let it drip dry. I do the same thing with the gas system. I put automotive bearing grease on the carrier and rails. I don't really clean the receiver I just make sure theres a little grease on the carrier and bolt. Rifle still shoots fine at 200 yards and I shoot corrosive mostly.

 

 

You should never ever ever ever ever put WD-40 on your gun, let alone in the gas system! You should NEVER put ANY oil ANYWHERE in the gas system of ANY gas operated firearm! Especially not WD!

 

There is a very slight chance of "Dieseling", not to mention the fouling that will happen due to oil in the system will be super nasty and far more detrimental to the gun (and you...) than just leaving it dry. After the first shot there is no lubricity to the oil you put in there, it is just tar that is much harder to remove than the fouling would be if you left it dry. If you feel like its going to rust, put a very light film of oil (not WD-40...) and wipe it off. I shoot corrosive, and keep my rifle in a non-climate controlled safe, and I have no problems with leaving the gas system totally dry after rinsing it out with warm soapy water.

Glenn,

 

As usual... Thank you. You are definitely the resident Combloc mofo. I appreciate the help. I agree... Boresnakes... not a fan. To me... it's like cleaning your gun with a dirty patch... it doesn't seem logical. As far as the number of passes... I will say this... 2 to 3 passes... not sure about that. I was shooting Uly, which you would think would be cleaner than the corrosive stuff you are shooting but... the copper wouldn't stop coming out. I mean... it was endless amounts of copper. Thats why I was jagging so much. Hence the reason for striking the crown so many times. If I jagged 2 or 3 times yeah no problem... but I was jagging endlessly. I never saw so much copper. Hopefully, I didn't damage the gun. People say... "what do you care its an AK!" But dude... I spent so much time putting this thing together it would kill me to have messed it up... thats all. Thanks again!

Glenn,

 

As usual... Thank you. You are definitely the resident Combloc mofo. I appreciate the help. I agree... Boresnakes... not a fan. To me... it's like cleaning your gun with a dirty patch... it doesn't seem logical. As far as the number of passes... I will say this... 2 to 3 passes... not sure about that. I was shooting Uly, which you would think would be cleaner than the corrosive stuff you are shooting but... the copper wouldn't stop coming out. I mean... it was endless amounts of copper. Thats why I was jagging so much. Hence the reason for striking the crown so many times. If I jagged 2 or 3 times yeah no problem... but I was jagging endlessly. I never saw so much copper. Hopefully, I didn't damage the gun. People say... "what do you care its an AK!" But dude... I spent so much time putting this thing together it would kill me to have messed it up... thats all. Thanks again!

 

Have you tried a dedicated copper solvent?

BoreTech Copper remover... It's great! I may have needed to use the brush more. I'll try that next time.

How hard are you guys jamming cleaning rods into your barrels to cause any damage to the crown?

 

Beyond that, why all the hate on boresnakes? They tend to do the job quite well if you want a quick cleaning after shooting.

When you use a copper solvent, use a tight patch of a slotted patch holder, not a jag, and work it back and forth ~10 times or so each patch untill discoloration stops or slows. This cures your over-enthusiastic jag use.

 

Hate on the boresnakes? They have a place, namely, on a .22 that you cant clean from the chamber end. .22s have fragile crowns and in conjunction with small bore diameter, I would never put a rod down the muzzle. If you cant get a rod in either way, well, I guess boresnake it is thats what I use on my 10/22

Thanks Glenn. I'll try your method of tight patching with a holder to see if I can break that copper up better.

When you use a copper solvent, use a tight patch of a slotted patch holder, not a jag, and work it back and forth ~10 times or so each patch untill discoloration stops or slows. This cures your over-enthusiastic jag use.

 

Hate on the boresnakes? They have a place, namely, on a .22 that you cant clean from the chamber end. .22s have fragile crowns and in conjunction with small bore diameter, I would never put a rod down the muzzle. If you cant get a rod in either way, well, I guess boresnake it is thats what I use on my 10/22

 

I would wager their place is a bit more than just a .22lr. For most folks it's great to have in between major cleanings, or working in the field. I mean, guns don't have to be cleaned after every single shot... especially AK and AR types.

 

As for damaging the crown, I would wager you'd have to hit the thing pretty hard. Like... with a hammer.

I would wager their place is a bit more than just a .22lr. For most folks it's great to have in between major cleanings, or working in the field. I mean, guns don't have to be cleaned after every single shot... especially AK and AR types.

 

As for damaging the crown, I would wager you'd have to hit the thing pretty hard. Like... with a hammer.

 

It really doesnt take much at all. Its alot easier than you would think with a .22! Take a cleaning rod, loosed the attachment so there is a slight gap, put it through the chamber end and pull it back out. Watch what happens when that gap catches the crown. Ask me know I know. The nick can usually be lapped out.

You should never ever ever ever ever put WD-40 on your gun, let alone in the gas system! You should NEVER put ANY oil ANYWHERE in the gas system of ANY gas operated firearm! Especially not WD!

 

There is a very slight chance of "Dieseling", not to mention the fouling that will happen due to oil in the system will be super nasty and far more detrimental to the gun (and you...) than just leaving it dry. After the first shot there is no lubricity to the oil you put in there, it is just tar that is much harder to remove than the fouling would be if you left it dry. If you feel like its going to rust, put a very light film of oil (not WD-40...) and wipe it off. I shoot corrosive, and keep my rifle in a non-climate controlled safe, and I have no problems with leaving the gas system totally dry after rinsing it out with warm soapy water.

 

Not to be a dick but my rifle lives on a WD40 regiment after shooting and I was more than happy with my iron sights shooting at 200 yards today. I don't think I've even ran a patch or bore snake of any sort through that bore at all in at least a year. I used to be very in depth with cleaning, as you seemed to be, but found it does fine without all the fancy products and elaborate procedures.

 

I forgot to clean it today so it's got a couple hundred rounds worth of salt sitting in it as we speak. I likely won't clean it for a few days as I'm away from home and have nothing to clean it with until next week anyway.

 

I understand some people like "proper" cleaning procedures and some guns require them, but these things seem to like whatever I douse them with.

Hey, to each his own. WD40 wont affect your accuracy, infact, I think nothing short of putting rocks in your barrel will with an AK, but WD40 is bad because of how it reacts to fouling, especially in the gas system. Never said you wont be able to shoot at 200 yards because you use WD40. Usually the best cleaning they get over the pond is a piece of string with a knot tied in it soaked in motor oil pulled through the bore and the reciever wiped out, and the rifle doesnt seem to care (notice they dont pull it through the gas system though!)