This issue is where people can't see the 'forest for the trees'. So the the max mag cap is 2, 12, 15, 147 or as they say WHATEVER. Here is the point. The THOSE cops don't know the law.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Fixed that for you Skippy.

2C:39-3(j)Any person who knowingly has in his possession a large capacity ammunition magazine is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree unless the person has registered an assault firearm pursuant to section 11 of P.L.1990, c.32 (C.2C:58-12) and the magazine is maintained and used in connection with participation in competitive shooting matches sanctioned by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship of the United States Department of the Army.

 

And just so there is no confusion, here's the definition of a "large capacity ammunition magazine" from the statutes...

 

2C39-1(y)"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.

 

Hope that clears things up for you. As was pointed out, the police are the last people you want to get legal advice from.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

let's not forget that doesn't apply to semi-auto shotguns where the max is 6

Fixed that for you Skippy.

 

 

Ok that is fair. Thanks.

 

But my name is not Skippy. It is Homer. My brother's name is Skippy.

Correct. IIRC someone was prosecuted in NJ for having a Marlin model 60 that accepted 16rounds of .22 shorts.

 

from: My link

Yet on October 21, 1996 the Superior Court of New Jersey, Appellate Division upheld Joseph Pelleteri's conviction for possessing an "assault firearm", specifically, a Marlin Model 60 .22 caliber rifle. In their opinion, the Court declared "When dealing in guns, the citizen acts at his peril."^[N.16] In other words, this could be any one of you law abiding gun owners in New Jersey! Perhaps it is time for you to get involved before you are maliciously prosecuted too! Can you imagine New Jersey's most dangerous drug traffickers toting Marlin Model 60's over their shoulders in some of our most urban neighborhoods as Colonel Dintino had testified? This we find difficult to believe. It is also extremely unlikely that any urban drug dealer would carry any cumbersome rifle through the streets to conduct the stealthful processes of drug distribution.

Ok that is fair. Thanks.

 

But my name is not Skippy. It is Homer. My brother's name is Skippy.

 

Fair 'nuff

While we're (sort of) on the subject - there are some Marlin Model 60s that are NJ legal, correct? Or am I imagining that?

While we're (sort of) on the subject - there are some Marlin Model 60s that are NJ legal, correct? Or am I imagining that?

 

They made aftermarket Mag tubes that were limited to 15 rounds IIRC..i couldnt tell you where to find one NOW, but it's also not all THAT hard to block the mag tube down yourself.

They made aftermarket Mag tubes that were limited to 15 rounds IIRC..i couldnt tell you where to find one NOW, but it's also not all THAT hard to block the mag tube down yourself.

You could crimp the tube to reduce the capacity.

You could crimp the tube to reduce the capacity.

 

true....although IMO you would need something like Demo Crimpers to get the crimp deep enough without damaging or weakening the tube too much...and even then i dont know if that would crimp it "Enough" Better to disassemble, and put in a limiter rod

Good info - thx guys

true....although IMO you would need something like Demo Crimpers to get the crimp deep enough without damaging or weakening the tube too much...and even then i dont know if that would crimp it "Enough" Better to disassemble, and put in a limiter rod

hasn't it been mentioned above that pinning or limiting magazines is not enough in this great state... That if it can physically hold more than 15 that you are in do-do brown? Wouldn't a limiter rod fall under this category or since its a non-removable magazine this type of modification is allowable??

While we're (sort of) on the subject - there are some Marlin Model 60s that are NJ legal, correct? Or am I imagining that?

 

IIRC any modern model 60 is chambered for .22lr "only", and the receiver is marked as such.

IIRC any modern model 60 is chambered for .22lr "only", and the receiver is marked as such.

I just checked the Marlin site, and, you're right - it's listed as "22 Long Rifle only". It also seems to come with a 14 round tube from the factory now. That said, the manual for the 60 says:

 

"WARNING: Your rifle is a self-loading .22 caliber designed for .22 Long Rifle High Velocity cartridges only (not Hyper-Velocity). Shorts, longs, and Shot cartridges can be loaded and fired, but Marlin does not recommend them, as feeding will not be reliable and damage or injury may result from their use."

 

Which I guess brings us back to crimping/blocking/etc...

I just checked the Marlin site, and, you're right - it's listed as "22 Long Rifle only". It also seems to come with a 14 round tube from the factory now. That said, the manual for the 60 says:

 

 

 

Which I guess brings us back to crimping/blocking/etc...

 

I think I know your thinking on this, but the book does say that they can be loaded and fired however not recommended, I think that's the key wording that can cause to problem.

 

Harry

I think I know your thinking on this, but the book does say that they can be loaded and fired however not recommended, I think that's the key wording that can cause to problem.

 

Harry

Yes, I admit, I'm doing the "let me think like an overzealous prosecutor" thing

Except it won't feed longs and shorts worth a darn. So it isn't quite capable of feeding your 16+ shorts, so wouldn't be semi-auto. And it is chambered in 22LR only, which will only hold 14 rounds. You really have to be paranoid to be afraid of owning a Marlin 60 because you can fit more then 15 shorts in the tube. That is like saying you could jam 16 9mm rounds in your .40 magazine so it is illegal...

true....although IMO you would need something like Demo Crimpers to get the crimp deep enough without damaging or weakening the tube too much...and even then i dont know if that would crimp it "Enough" Better to disassemble, and put in a limiter rod

 

The law specifically states that "wood blocks" or using pins to limit magazine capacity is unacceptable and your magazine will still be considered illegal. That's my interpretation.

 

hasn't it been mentioned above that pinning or limiting magazines is not enough in this great state... That if it can physically hold more than 15 that you are in do-do brown? Wouldn't a limiter rod fall under this category or since its a non-removable magazine this type of modification is allowable??

 

See above and;

The dilemma I see with the 60 is that it has a Inner and outter magazine. So if you crimp the inner magazine to hold only 15 rounds, but you can slide 17+ rounds into the outter tube are you in violation? The gun can not fire semi auto without the inner magazine installed, although I think it maybe possible to physically hold the 15 round crimped inner tube (why would you) in the 17+ round outter tube, fire (2) rounds then lock it in place. Remember, the citizen acts at his own peril when it comes to guns in NJ.

 

I think I know your thinking on this, but the book does say that they can be loaded and fired however not recommended, I think that's the key wording that can cause to problem.

 

Harry

 

I think Marlin means that you can fire hand loaded single rounds, not 22 shorts loaded into the magazine. I think.

true....although IMO you would need something like Demo Crimpers to get the crimp deep enough without damaging or weakening the tube too much...and even then i dont know if that would crimp it "Enough" Better to disassemble, and put in a limiter rod

 

My understanding is that blocking is unacceptable, as is pinning. The theory being that you can remove the block or pin and cause a massacre of epic proportion with the Marlin 60.

 

But I believe crimping is acceptable since it permanently deforms the metal. There is another topic where one of the posters (sorry don't have the name) details how to modify the magazines. He modified both inner and outter magazines, shortening the outter and shortening and crimping the inner. He also commented that after he did this, he read the magazine law again an decided that he would have just modified the inner tube. Got that? Also he said to use a small pipe cutter with the cutter wheel removed and a washer used in place of it to make the crimp.

 

All this nonsense for a $200, at most, plinker.

The law specifically states that "wood blocks" or using pins to limit magazine capacity is unacceptable and your magazine will still be considered illegal. That's my interpretation.

 

 

 

See above and;

The dilemma I see with the 60 is that it has a Inner and outter magazine. So if you crimp the inner magazine to hold only 15 rounds, but you can slide 17+ rounds into the outter tube are you in violation? The gun can not fire semi auto without the inner magazine installed, although I think it maybe possible to physically hold the 15 round crimped inner tube (why would you) in the 17+ round outter tube, fire (2) rounds then lock it in place. Remember, the citizen acts at his own peril when it comes to guns in NJ.

 

 

 

I think Marlin means that you can fire hand loaded single rounds, not 22 shorts loaded into the magazine. I think.

 

NO - the "law" under 2C only says that the mag must be blocked and does not specify how. What you are referring to is Zuma Farber's (a former AG - and forgive me if I spelled her name wrong) reinterpretation of this law in the Administrative Code (Title 13), which cannot result in criminal charges against an individual.

NO - the "law" under 2C only says that the mag must be blocked and does not specify how. What you are referring to is Zuma Farber's (a former AG - and forgive me if I spelled her name wrong) reinterpretation of this law in the Administrative Code (Title 13), which cannot result in criminal charges against an individual.

 

This is from the State Police website. http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_ag2.html

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 Definitions

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is

capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

Why is the "Administrative code" Title 13 different from the Law under 2C? Isn't this cause for confusion? I'm not saying you are wrong, just that if the cops are reading one thing and the judge is reading another, well.

This is from the State Police website. http://www.state.nj....t/fire_ag2.html

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 Definitions

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is

capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

 

 

Why is the "Administrative code" Title 13 different from the Law under 2C? Isn't this cause for confusion? I'm not saying you are wrong, just that if the cops are reading one thing and the judge is reading another, well.

 

only dealers can break administrative code... it is the code by which firearm dealers are regulated..

2c is criminal law..

 

technically... that is my understanding..

So, for arguments sake, let's say a NJ dealer sells me a PMAG that uses a pin to limit the magazine to 15 rounds... who gets in trouble? Me? or the dealer?

So, for arguments sake, let's say a NJ dealer sells me a PMAG that uses a pin to limit the magazine to 15 rounds... who gets in trouble? Me? or the dealer?

 

the dealer if the hypothetical modification is not "permanent"..

Lets not lose sight of the fact that no one can be charged with a Administrative Code violation. That is not law.

 

the answer is simple as I understand it...

 

a DEALER in NJ selling magazines is obligated to permanently modify the magazine prior to sale so that changing it would destroy the magazine...

 

the CONSUMER on the other hand is not bound by the same rules as far as the consumer goes.. the magazine may only hold 15 rounds.. period..HOW that happens is not relevant...

 

 

there is a difference between firearms law.. and the administrative law that dealers must comply with....

 

I am pretty sure that is the situation..

 

:thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

there are two sets of rules in NJ..

 

1) those that apply to us the gun OWNERS

and

2) those that apply to gun DEALERS...

 

you a gun owner can not own a magazine that can hold more than 15 rounds PERIOD.. id doesn't matter if you have a sock stuffed in the magazine.. if the magazine can NOT hold more than 15 rounds.. it is legal.. period..

 

dealers on the other hand have to abide by administrative code.. which states the magazine must be PERMANENTLY modified to only accept 15 rounds.. what does that mean? it simply means if you try to modify it to hold more than 15 rounds (take it apart for example) it will destroy the magazine and make it useless...

 

that is the law.. the most common way to make a mag hold 15 rounds or less on the gun owner side is a simple pin.. on the dealer side it is far more complicated and normally involves welding, epoxy, etc..

two sets of rules... gotta love Jersey

two sets of rules... gotta love Jersey

 

I think you know how I feel about it... lol

hah indeed I do

He definitly got his answer then some. Go to pensy buy a 30 shoot there and sell it b4 crossing the border again XD

Some LEO's know the law. And yes it is 15

I had an LEO try to tell me once that it was illegal for me to keep a loaded firearm in my house (I told him when I'm home my guns are loaded). He actually insisted I was wrong. I laughed it off as I didn't have access to this site at the time (it was before i joined).

 

My point...just because someone is an LEO doesn't mean they knows the laws.

 

I hate the 15 rounbd rule...I always seem to find 16 rounders for my XD