First off i wanna say i hate this effin state , now that i got that off my chest , today at the range im shooting my M&P 22 , THE MAG ON IT IS A 25 ROUNDER THAT IS PERMANENTLY PINNED AT 10 ROUND CAPACITY , now some guy comes up to me and lets just say he was somebody of minor importance at the range and tells me they are ILLEGAL !!!!! I say to him it is permanently pinned at 10 which is legal and then show him the mag and tell him it came straight from S&W , he begins to say it doesnt matter the mag has to be SIZED to only be able to hold 15 .... now he trys to throw out there about Springfield XDMs , he says you cant buy them in NJ cause of the mag capacity ,NOW here we go again, since i happen to OWN a XDM 45 i tell him yes you can own a XDM in 45 and they are ony 13 rounders , so now he decides to go to the clubhouse and pull out the rulebook and find out if what hes tellin me is true , which he never does find .......... so somebody please tell me im in the right here , i didnt want to argue with the guy , i do respect my elders but i felt like he was tryin to tell me dont bring them here again ........ So am i right or not , just lookin for a answer ???

First off i wanna say i hate this effin state , now that i got that off my chest , today at the range im shooting my M&P 22 , THE MAG ON IT IS A 25 ROUNDER THAT IS PERMANENTLY PINNED AT 10 ROUND CAPACITY , now some guy comes up to me and lets just say he was somebody of minor importance at the range and tells me they are ILLEGAL !!!!! I say to him it is permanently pinned at 10 which is legal and then show him the mag and tell him it came straight from S&W , he begins to say it doesnt matter the mag has to be SIZED to only be able to hold 15 .... now he trys to throw out there about Springfield XDMs , he says you cant buy them in NJ cause of the mag capacity ,NOW here we go again, since i happen to OWN a XDM 45 i tell him yes you can own a XDM in 45 and they are ony 13 rounders , so now he decides to go to the clubhouse and pull out the rulebook and find out if what hes tellin me is true , which he never does find .......... so somebody please tell me im in the right here , i didnt want to argue with the guy , i do respect my elders but i felt like he was tryin to tell me dont bring them here again ........ So am i right or not , just lookin for a answer ???

 

 

You are correct. Ask him where he got his JD.

You'll run into these know it alls every now and then. Yesterday at a PA public range I had a nice older fellow that was just looking out for me so he says, tell me I can only discharge 3 rounds at a time. I explained that I had been coming there for many years and it's 3 rounds in a rifle, 6 in a pistol, and I was shooting a pistol. He told me I was wrong, so I walked him over to the placard on one of the benches and showed him, 3 rounds in a rifle, 6 in a pistol. He still wanted to disagree, but thankfully walked away before I told him something deservedly inapropriate.

Like i said im no expert but i do think i know the laws , especially from coming on here , so i was just frustrated that he was gonna try to prove me wrong when i knew i was right , ughhh just aggrivated ... lol !!!!!

Like i said im no expert but i do think i know the laws , especially from coming on here , so i was just frustrated that he was gonna try to prove me wrong when i knew i was right , ughhh just aggrivated ... lol !!!!!

These guy's are easy to spot at the range and avoid. Overweight, ballcap, mustache, they smell like the blanket your dog sleaps on and their only halfway through that 20 round box of bolt action rifle ammunition they purchased in 1988. Semi autos are a no no.

When i picked up my rifle i got the same crap from some 50yrd old guy just standing around. "That rifle is illegal you cant own that"...my response: watch me..

 

This was a little more annoying since the guy didn't realize no FFL will sell you an illegal rifle, I was gonna take a min and explain why it was legal but by the time i finished all the paperwork he was gone... Maybe he was scared of my evil looking gun, some guy next to me was looking at a colt and bushmaster, so it was an awkward comment considering the circumstances.

When i picked up my rifle i got the same crap from some 50yrd old guy just standing around. "That rifle is illegal you cant own that"...my response: watch me..

 

This was a little more annoying since the guy didn't realize no FFL will sell you an illegal rifle, I was gonna take a min and explain why it was legal but by the time i finished all the paperwork he was gone... Maybe he was scared of my evil looking gun, some guy next to me was looking at a colt and bushmaster, so it was an awkward comment considering the circumstances.

Hahahaha thats awesome !!!!! yeah i told the guy too that a FFL just sold me the gun , of course his answer was a FFL sold him a illegal gun , blah blah blah !!! At the end of the conversation he said he was going home to look on his computer to see where he read that

Next time you see him, tell him to look up the actual law under 2C. The only thing it says is that you cannot possess a mag that is capable of holding more than 15 rounds if it fits into a semi auto. If it's blocked by any means, it SHOULD be legal. All the "permanently" language is in the administrative code and is not black letter law. Most people will not have "temporary" blocked mags because they don't want to take the chance.

 

Bottom line, he's talking out of his a$$.

of course his answer was a FFL sold him a illegal gun , blah blah blah !!!

 

It HAS happened. I have proof.

I sure woulda had a lot of fun with the guy and the rule book.

 

You get the book and then come back to me. I don't see the rule, are you sure you have teh right book, go look again and come back etc......

ooting here. I will talk to you when I have less time.

Hes probabaly at home STILL looking for the law that says that !!!

These guy's are easy to spot at the range and avoid. Overweight, ballcap, mustache, they smell like the blanket your dog sleaps on and their only halfway through that 20 round box of bolt action rifle ammunition they purchased in 1988. Semi autos are a no no.

 

 

Wait a minute.....

Overweight...............................check

Ballcap......................................check

mustache.................................check

Dog blanket smell..................check (and my dog takes offense at that - she smells pretty darn good)

half box of shells.....................check

Semi-auto no-no.....................uh, no, whew, for a minute there I thought you were talking about me

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Ok folks, most of the people in here when at the range or store have heard plenty of piss poor information. While this story of what happened at the range can be frustrating none of us knew the laws before we read them. or learned about them here or someplace else, so even though it's a pain on the @#! it doesn't help the shooting community in NJ to allow these miss informed people to stay that way. Think of this as an opportunity to educate and help all of us, because the more people who know the real laws and quit misinforming others, the better off we all will be in the long run.

 

Here is what you do the next time, 1st off, hand him one or more of your extra NJGF targets you printed at home (you do have your targets with you don't you?) and let them know about this place, it's a great source of information, learning, and friendly with people who share the same passion, plus the URL is on the target, makes it easy. Also at the same time explaining why a particular gun or mag or what ever they think is illegal is legal, no reason for an argument, if they are willing to listen great, if not you have provided them with the resources to find out for real.

 

Harry

When i picked up my rifle I got the same crap from some 50yrd old guy just standing around. "

 

Now I am offended,, While I am not 50 yet I really don't plan on aging that much faster than I have been in the next few years to be considered OLD..

Remember 45 is the new 30, so 50 would be somewhere between 33-34, right....

 

Harry

Wait a minute.....

Overweight...............................check

Ballcap......................................check

mustache.................................check

Dog blanket smell..................check (and my dog takes offense at that - she smells pretty darn good)

half box of shells.....................check

Semi-auto no-no.....................uh, no, whew, for a minute there I thought you were talking about me

 

 

ROFLMAO Bob, they are stereo typing in this thread, you see that OLD comment also??

 

Harry

After doing some of my own research here is what i found on NJSPs web site .." A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine." I think im gonna print this out and show it to him the next time i see him , HA take that !!!!!!!!

ROFLMAO Bob, they are stereo typing in this thread, you see that OLD comment also??

 

Harry

 

 

If 50 is old, I'm ancient

If I spent time trying to correct all the misinformation I hear at the range or in gun stores I wouldn't have any time left in the day. I used to try and correct people but they wanna argue all the time so screw em.

After doing some of my own research here is what i found on NJSPs web site .." A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine." I think im gonna print this out and show it to him the next time i see him , HA take that !!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Yep, Thats the NJ Administrative Code. They are just trying to get the point accross that they don't want to see people just dropping a piece of wood or pin into the bottom to block it. In my book, "permanently" means something that alters the mag in order to block it rather than just stuffing the bottom with something. To get legal, the statutes as others pointed out simply defines them as "a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm."

 

Now thinking like a PRNJ prosecutor, surely if there was just a block of wood in the bottom, the he/she would demonstrate how popping the bottom of the mag off and letting it fall free would now define the mag as "large capacity". This is why when we think "permanently altered" we should imagine alterations that would not be that easy to un-do.

 

 

Its been a long time since I've encountered anyone like this at the range. I'm happy to say at CJRPC , the folks there all seem into EBC's, and most seem to have one with them even when shooting their black powder or BA rifles. Almost every time I go, I wind up getting into conversations on this or that around EBC/SA rifles. The past 2 times I even met guys who were trying out their brand new AR rifles. Makes me happy.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that no one can be charged with a Administrative Code violation. That is not law. In this instance, only violations of Title 2C are chargeable if it applies.

 

NJS:39-3j states "Any person who knowingly has in his possession a large capacity ammunition magazine is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree unless the person has registered an assault firearm pursuant to section 11 of P.L.1990, c.32 (C.2C:58-12) and the magazine is maintained and used in connection with participation in competitive shooting matches sanctioned by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship of the United States Department of the Army.

NJS 2C:39-1y states "Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.

 

The Administrative Code is what dealers are guided by. Violations will get their license pulled. That is why an out of state business can sell magazines that are not "permanently altered" to NJ residents. Neither the business nor the resident can be charged with violating the code or law.

of course his answer was a FFL sold him a illegal gun ,

 

 

after some of the things I have come in contact with since becoming a firearms enthusiasts I would not doubt that..

after some of the things I have come in contact with since becoming a firearms enthusiasts I would not doubt that..

Would you doubt it if it was me?

Would you doubt it if it was me?

 

 

lets just say I trust your judgment.. others? not so much.. and I will leave it at that..

Now I am offended,, While I am not 50 yet I really don't plan on aging that much faster than I have been in the next few years to be considered OLD..

Remember 45 is the new 30, so 50 would be somewhere between 33-34, right....

 

Harry

i wasnt say he was old hahaha, sorry if you read it that way, he was 50 years old(or looked like it), just like i am 25 years old...lmao. My definition of old has nothing to do with age, I know 50 year olds that put me to shame.

i wasnt say he was old hahaha, sorry if you read it that way, he was 50 years old, just like i am 25 years old...lmao

 

I was joking, I may have just had to go through a stress test, and EKG, just got some readers after the wife started asking me why I was moving things around to read them but I am no where close to being old, I may have a few years behind me but I am forever young. Ask my wife, she will tell ya I have yet to grow up.

 

I'd still meet and practice stages with ya if you allow me..

 

Harry