I remember one of my first posts here was about gun choices to be used for self defense in the home. Anyone can be sued for anything these days, and as we know NJ's gun laws are very ambiguous and open for subjective argument (in front of a jury).

 

Bottom line, the use of hollow points in your own home for self defense is 100% legal under NJ laws as they are written.

 

I would find it hard to believe that a prosecutor would try to nail someone for illegal possession of a hollow point bullet when clearly the home is an exempted location.

 

What they can try to do is use the choice of gun and ammo as an argument to debunk that the shooting was not self defense, hence illegal manslaughter or murder. They could attempt to sway the jury that you are a blood thirsty gun nut that just wanted any excuse to shoot someone.. and part of the argument is your use of a .50 s&w with 'special purpose hollow point ammunition designed to explode on contact with humans'. The same thing could also be used in civil court.

 

This is a completely different then saying HP ammo is illegal to use in your home for self defense....

 

Also, the point of my post way back when was that I choose to utilize firearms, calibers, and commercial ammunition types similar to those in use by LE. This way the whole spin that you are a blood thirsty gun nut because of your gun and ammo choices would be moot, as they would be inferring that all LE are the same since they use the same type of weapons and ammo.

 

 

Also, the point of my post way back when was that I choose to utilize firearms, calibers, and commercial ammunition types similar to those in use by LE. This way the whole spin that you are a blood thirsty gun nut because of your gun and ammo choices would be moot, as they would be inferring that all LE are the same since they use the same type of weapons and ammo.

 

If they are trying to get you on a "gray area" weapons charge in a legitimate shooting, they've already lost the case because they've already ceded to your non-guilt on the HD shooting. A competent defense attorney will pounce on that like a fat kid on a cupcake.

Damn it - I'm just gonna get me an axe.

works best for zombies !

The best advice on hollowpoints I've heard came from Anthony Colandro at Gun for Hire. Use exactly the load that your local, county or state police are using. It's difficult for a prosecutor to argue you deliberately selected an evil murderous round in a case like that.

The best advice on hollowpoints I've heard came from Anthony Colandro at Gun for Hire. Use exactly the load that your local, county or state police are using. It's difficult for a prosecutor to argue you deliberately selected an evil murderous round in a case like that.

 

and WHAT load if that? i need to add it to my supply.

currently, Im stocked up on Hornady Critical Defense.

and WHAT load if that? i need to add it to my supply.

currently, Im stocked up on Hornady Critical Defense.

I should have said Anthony's advice is best "if you are primarily concerned with legalities." In my case, I followed the advice of Gary Roberts in his Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads sticky. If your local PD is not stuck in the 1990's with Hydrashoks or Silvertips there is a good chance they will be using something from Doc's list anyway.

 

NYPD uses 9mm 124 grain +P Gold Dots, I would be glad to know what the NJSP or major NJ agencies use if anyone here knows.

Joe, the "heh" was not that you're former leo, it was that "I know that guy". I wasn't in any way trying to detract from your career as in Law enforcement and I apologize if it came across that way.

 

Thank you for clarifying that. I guess it is like the NJ Gun Laws... Depends on how you interpret it. LOL Just sounded like a bit like a smirk. It's all good. Now that this is water under the bridge, shoot me an e-mail with any ideas or glaring changes that should be made on the site. Seriously, wouldn't it be great to have a site that explains this stuff in layman's terms?

Agree - you just never know, especially in NJ.

 

However, to argue that a hollow point is a "more lethal round" is a point I would argue incessantly against. The reason to have hollow points for home defense is to prevent overpenetration, to prevent someone else from being injured by a stray bullet.

 

The way you are reading the law in NJ is that you can have hollow points, but you can't use them. I don't read it that way.

 

In any case, neither of us are lawyers and this particular point remains a bone of contention even BETWEEN gun rights lawyers within the state!!

 

Let me float another scenario Joe - which would you rather have John Q Public shoot the actor with, his own round ball reloads or commercially produced HP ammo? I know I would be dead on the witness stand regardless of the fact that I reload powder puff loads if the prosecutor found out that I had reloaded my HD ammo.

 

There's just too much ambiguity in NJ law - and the fact that the state regularly jams up otherwise law abiding citizens versus how they treat John the scumbag Drug Dealer, or Joe the gangbanger or Dave the car thief, even if they are caught with firearms... Yes, breaking the law is breaking the law, but it seems that when you go ahead and break 10 laws you only really need to serve time for 1 or 2 MAX. Whereas if you break 1 law, you get the book thrown at you for the full sentence, no time off, no consideration for your otherwise clean record...

I agree with you 100%, and in my opinion we should be able to defend ourselves in anyway possible. I can assure you that I would personally defend my life or that of my family in any way possible and would probably end up paying the consequences as well. However, I am only putting it out there so that people know what most likely will happen if this situation comes down the pike.

Agree - you just never know, especially in NJ.

 

However, to argue that a hollow point is a "more lethal round" is a point I would argue incessantly against. The reason to have hollow points for home defense is to prevent overpenetration, to prevent someone else from being injured by a stray bullet..

 

Is that the actual reason? In most cases, yes. But there is an argument for the first thing you said. And it is actually a pretty good one. Hollow points are not against the Geneva Convention because they prevent over penetration, they are illegal because they can "increase human suffering". I'm sure there are people who could bring this up and be pretty damn convincing using it too...

 

With that said, I am not making that argument. I do carry hollow points in my pistol at home.

As we all know, the NJ State Laws are written in in a very unclear manner to a certain extent and are purposely left unclear, in order to allow the Prosecutors as much latitude as possible. It does not serve them well to be cut and dry, or black and white in their language as it pertains to firearms. It has been stated time and again, that those dealing and engaging in firearms sports do so at their own peril.

 

For instance, in my experience throughout my 26 year career in law enforcement, everyone (except active LEOs), who was found to be in possession of hollow nose rounds chambered, was charged with same, whether in the course of a crime or not. Which opens another door... If you use your hollow points to defend yourself in your home... Is someone going to flip the proverbial coin and use it against you? Remember the fact that you decided to use a more "lethal round" while protecting yourself, which could and probably would appear in someones eyes as over the top. You just never know.

 

Every single person in the entire United States that owns a handgun, whether they carry it or not, has it loaded with hollowpoints - outside of New Jersey. So, I doubt it would "appear in someones eyes as over the top" to anybody except an NJ cop or NJ cop retired. Ask the prosecution how many police departments issue ammo that is not hollowpoint.

Every single person in the entire United States that owns a handgun, whether they carry it or not, has it loaded with hollowpoints - outside of New Jersey. So, I doubt it would "appear in someones eyes as over the top" to anybody except an NJ cop or NJ cop retired. Ask the prosecution how many police departments issue ammo that is not hollowpoint.

 

You are missing the point... Do you really think that I am in favor of not carrying hollow point ammo? I'm just saying that if you use it, there may be legal issues. Simple as that! Everyone should just know that. I have seen it time and time again. I'm even ashamed to say that I have personally charged people with it, only because I had to, not because I believed it was the right thing to do, so please don't put me in that category.. I carry right now as a retired LEO and if I had the choice, I would use hollow points. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION ANY MORE! It actually pisses me off to no end that I can't. It's what some liberal "Non Gun Owning" Judge or Jury thinks at the end of the day. It's a crap shoot. I have a novel idea... How about we expend some of this energy into making the NJGunInfo site what it needs to be, rather than expressing our opinions back and forth here? Everyone in here seems to have all the answers, so lets just make it happen. Find the words that fit and I'll be more than happy to publish it up. I'm just sayin'.

I carry right now as a retired LEO and if I had the choice, I would use hollow points. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION ANY MORE! It actually pisses me off to no end that I can't.

 

 

Yes you do. I do not have the cite at hand, but as a retired LEO, carrying under the auspices of LEOSA, there was a recent case that allows you the use of hollowpoints in NJ. Someone more legal savvy than I will come along with the actual cite.

 

Even if you decide you don't want to take the chance, you have Federal EFMJ (now relabeled for home defense), Corbon Powrball and Hornady Critical Defense. The NJSP requested an opinion from the Association of Firearm & Toolmark Examiners as to whether these specific rounds were to be considered hollowpoints. The AFTE responded in the negative, so you're GTG.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

My link

 

Per Federal Law, no more NJ CCW needed and Hollowpoints are legal to carry. NJ can kiss my a**.

My link

 

Per Federal Law, no more NJ CCW needed and Hollowpoints are legal to carry. NJ can kiss my a**.

 

Unless something has changed since 7/1/11, the NJSP and the NJ AG's office have taken the following stance in regard to the revisions to HR 218.

 

This is part of an e-mail from an assistant AG to a retiree from DCJ. No names of course.

 

 

All I can say at this point is that we are working on this issue. I have been re-named legal advisor to the State Police Firearms Unit and we are trying to resolve this issue. At this time, retired LEs in New Jersey cannot carry hollow nose ammunition within the State. However, active LEs and retired LEs from other states can carry hollow nose ammunition in New Jersey if they comply with LEOSA.

I will let you know if and when we resolve this issue. Happy retirement.

 

So, even though Federal law has changed in some aspects, NJ has taken the position that they will do whatever they please, once again!

 

I am a retired LEO from NJ currently living in FL and I'm affected by this ruling.

So, even though Federal law has changed in some aspects, NJ has taken the position that they will do whatever they please, once again!

I also have taken that position.

Until I see that the NJSP and the AG's Office has acknowledged the improvements to HR 218, I will continue to carry ball ammo or Federal EFMJ when traveling to NJ.

 

I don't feel like tying up thousands of dollars in legal fees to fight a charge that I know to be bogus but one that some knuckleheaded Trooper or local LEO didn't know dick about.

Until I see that the NJSP and the AG's Office has acknowledged the improvements to HR 218, I will continue to carry ball ammo or Federal EFMJ when traveling to NJ.

 

I don't feel like tying up thousands of dollars in legal fees to fight a charge that I know to be bogus but one that some knuckleheaded Trooper or local LEO didn't know dick about.

 

My point exactly. I don't have much, but what I have, I intend on keeping!

:thsmiley_deadhorse: I think I just figured out the solution to the hollow point issue. After you use them, just make sure you hide the body very well... I'm just sayin'...