I came across this while browsing YouTube and thought it was a pretty neat idea. I want to buy one and see if it can't be adapted to a replica Glock airsoft gun, however I'm afraid to do so after hearing some comments about it. On the product's Amazon page (yes, it's actually for sale on Amazon) reviewers warn that there is a prison sentence associated with "constructive intent" i.e. planning to convert your handgun into a "short barreled rifle".

 

It's worth noting that the product itself does not constitute a stock, it merely provides a provision for one to be added separately. Given that, I can't see how it could be illegal to buy as-is regardless of state, possession of the appropriate tax stamps, FID cards, pistol permits, or even age. If a stock were attached to it I could understand the issue. The manufacturer even addresses this issue with the same argument on their FAQ page and certainly they're working through a secure loophole if this thing is up for sale to anyone on Amazon

 

Also worth noting - I don't own a glock, only a gas airsoft pistol. The "constructive intent" penalty certainly can't apply if the firearm is missing from the equation.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Edit. Also found this. It's essentially the same thing but made of a different material and sold at a small fraction of the price - specifically for toys. Is there any risk here?

That stock would turn the Glock into a short barreled rifle. Without going through the proper NFA process, it's illegal. In NJ, it's just plain illegal because acquiring NFA items is harder than getting a carry permit.

That stock would turn the Glock into a short barreled rifle. Without going through the proper NFA process, it's illegal. In NJ, it's just plain illegal because acquiring NFA items is harder than getting a carry permit.

 

Vic, He's talking about adding it to an Airsoft replica Glock, not a real firearm. Also, no one in NJ except LE/Mil can get an SBR... not even FFLs with SOT.

 

IMO you don't own the pieces needed to prove constructive intent. Now if you owned a real Glock AND an airsoft Glock, left both on the kitchen table, and had your house entered on a search warrant.... then you might have a problem. Buy it and have fun.

So, wait a minute. You can buy one of these if you DON'T own a Glock? At what point will it become illegal?

*in before the paranoids*

 

If there's a search warrant on your home, you've probably fooked up somewhere bad enough to draw the negative attention of law enforcement; despite what some of the more paranoid members of the forum believe. You're good. I would certainly buy the airsoft version, because it's cheaper and will not need to be altered to fit the airsoft gun. This way, it'd be easier to "prove" that there is no constructive intent for a real Glock, as the airsoft version theoretically will not hold up to the recoil of a real gun.

 

Get it and have fun! They even have full carbine kits for your airsoft glock, depending on the version you have.

if the item you have in your possession can be readily combined with firearms you have in your possession to create a firearm that would be illegal then it is a no go..

 

if the item does not.. then you are fine..

 

IMO

Vic, He's talking about adding it to an Airsoft replica Glock, not a real firearm. Also, no one in NJ except LE/Mil can get an SBR... not even FFLs with SOT.

I didn't catch the airsoft part. I was also referring to civilians as far as NFA.

Undoubtedly the airsoft-specific version will be the safer route but honestly I'm not up for risking it. Though anyone could tell ABS plastic wouldn't be suited for the recoil of a real firearm and that tweaks have been made to the design so it can fit into the airsoft style grip which is different.

 

Even still I fail to see how this product, being nothing more than an adapter (not a stock), would be illegal to buy under any circumstances. If the ATF's influence is really that severe, they might as well post agents in every hardware store waiting for a registered gun owner to purchase some raw materials just in case he's guilty of so called "constructive intent" as almost anyone can fashion something like this on their own. It's only the convenience of a simple purchase that makes this more appealing than building your own.

 

Thought Police much?

Is constructive possession a federal, or NJ thing? I was under the impression that it was a concern in NJ.

Is constructive possession a federal, or NJ thing? I was under the impression that it was a concern in NJ.

It's not limited to either, it can be used to charge for both state and federal statutes. For Example...You can buy a full M-16 Fire control kit at any gun show. However if you possess that kit, which is NOTHING more then a collection of parts, and also own an Ar-15, even if that rifle is unaltered, ATF can and HAS Considered that to be "Constructive Possession" of a machinegun. Conversely (Staying with the firearms theme) If you possess an Ar, a collapsible stock, and an Upper with a Flash-hider, you COULD technically be considered in "Constructive Possession" of an "Assault Weapon" under NJ's AWB. Thing is, COnstructive Possession is USUALLY restricted to being used as an add-on for when someone comes onto the radar for something else. ANY of us who reload, or shoot Black Powder probably have in our homes, garages and sheds MORE than enough assorted hardware to be considered in "Constructive possession" of bomb-making materials. In the end it all depends on how tight your tinfoil is. As long as the OP does not Own a Glock Firearm, then he is GTG, however if he ever does purchase a Glock then he needs to get rid of that adaptor most rikky-tik.

Thank you, kind sir.

Thank you, kind sir.

One of the key things that most Tinfoilers miss is that the majority of NJ statutes have some keywords in them..such as "Purposely" and "Knowingly", or "Recklessly" and "Negligently" That provides some protection from the inadvertent issues that come up, Federal statutes however don't have that little loophole that demands the demonstration of some intent or culpability.

KpdPipes is 100% correct but I'll add a little more. A M2 kit used to convert a M1 carbine to full auto is a NFA registered weapon all by itself with no M1 carbine to put them on as far as ATF is concerned. There are six parts that are considered part of a M2 kit are hammer, sear, slide, disconnector, disconnector lever, and selector (the last three have no place in any M1 carbine). There are others as well but these six are a NFA item. It is not uncommon to find other M2 parts (except the three I mentioned) in a legit M1 carbine. Having the six parts I mentioned can get you an extended stay in a Federal Corrections facility.

 

There are also some carbine receivers marked M2. The receiver itself is a NFA item even if you have all M1 parts on it.

 

Constructive possession applies to a lot of things under Federal law.

Wow, thanks a lot for the info guys.

That's some crazy info there, thanks for posting.

 

What is the process (if any) for converting a handgun to a full-sized rifle in NJ? (That is to say: adding a stock and a 16"+ barrel). Wouldn't the ATF require paperwork because of the fact that after the conversion, you still possess parts to turn the rifle into a SBR?

Once a pistol, always a pistol.

Once a pistol, always a pistol.

 

I don't know about NJ, but generally speaking, it's "Once a rifle, always a rifle."

 

You can change a pistol to a rifle. But (with obscure exceptions) it can never become a pistol again. No rifle can ever become a pistol. A rifle can only become an SBR or AOW.

 

Again, not sure if NJ has additional restrictions.

A pistol can become a rifle then back again.

A pistol can become a rifle then back again.

 

I put a qualifier in parentheses in what I posted in case you missed it. I will now add - beyond what has specifically been demonstrated in court, there is peril.

 

This issue has been argued to death so I will leave it at this for any new people reading this. If you plan to do this, just know what you are doing. And probably wouldn't hurt to get the opinion of a firearms attorney. Many of them disagree about this, so ask a few and then flip a coin to pick one. The ATF is almost consistent on this (they are never completely consistent) - once a rifle, always a rifle, except for the case they lost on the Contender.

A pistol can become a rifle then back again.

 

I put a qualifier in parentheses in what I posted in case you missed it. I will now add - beyond what has specifically been demonstrated in court, there is peril.

 

This issue has been argued to death so I will leave it at this for any new people reading this. If you plan to do this, just know what you are doing. And probably wouldn't hurt to get the opinion of a firearms attorney. Many of them disagree about this, so ask a few and then flip a coin to pick one. The ATF is almost consistent on this (they are never completely consistent) - once a rifle, always a rifle, except for the case they lost on the Contender.

 

 

Whoah, hold the phone. Maybe you knew this? ATF recently (last month) released new guidance that it is OK to turn a pistol into a rifle and back into a pistol. If you knew about the update, then Good Work, PK90.

 

I just stumbled upon it, and not having figured it out yet, I would still advise serious research and caution before toying with this. And I am not a lawyer and this is a subject that I have never even been interested in. And, this has come up before and then been squashed as ambiguous.

 

Once a pistol, always a pistol.

 

Now THAT is still not true, unless it is an NJ rule. I can put a stock and 16" barrel on a pistol and it becomes a rifle. And, as such, I can sell it to somebody from out of state through an FFL in my state. A pistol would require an interstate transfer through an FFL in the buyer's home state.

What I meant originally was if bought as a pistol, it can be made into a rifle, then be made back into a pistol. That is all. Perhaps I said it wrong.

I just stumbled upon it, and not having figured it out yet, I would still advise serious research and caution before toying with this. And I am not a lawyer and this is a subject that I have never even been interested in. And, this has come up before and then been squashed as ambiguous.

 

I came across that too. http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf Perhaps a letter to the NJSP is in order to see if there are any NJ-specific restrictions on this new ruling. I'm sure a number of folks here would be interested in knowing if they can legally turn their pistols into rifles and back again. As far as the ATF is now concerned, though, it's just fine.

 

The relevant section:

 

 

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made

when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a

barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration

not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol)