Did an overnight trip with friends to the historical/social part of Philly this weekend. Decided to finally ccw with my Utah permit fir the first time. I have to say I was nervous at first, but then felt empowered while exercising my rights. The only time I ran into a roadblock was with some federal property historical exibit buildings that had posted scary federal law signs saying they do not allow firearms on the premises (5-10 years in prison). I respect the rights of private property owners that post such signs (most they can do is have you charged with trespassing in most cases), but the federal govt? If anything, federal property should be adhering to 2A rights more than anything else, IMO.

Federal buildings are still pretty much off limits to those who carry. One notable exception is national parks, which thanks to changes in federal law, now allow persons to carry within the park, as long as the person is compliant with state and federal laws.

 

However, I heard that buildings within the national parks (ranger stations, museums, welcome centers, etc.) are still off limits.

I was told that out of state ccw was a no go in the city of Philadelpia, ok every where else. I dont know that to be a fact just here say from diffrent people.

i think so to, you better check the law for philly, i dont think you can carry in philly.

I was told that out of state ccw was a no go in the city of Philadelpia, ok every where else. I dont know that to be a fact just here say from diffrent people.

 

 

i think so to, you better check the law for philly, i dont think you can carry in philly.

 

These rumors never seem to die. http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/26183-usefull-pa-ag-decision-on-ccw-with-a-nonres-permit/page__view__findpost__p__344854

I was told that out of state ccw was a no go in the city of Philadelpia, ok every where else. I dont know that to be a fact just here say from diffrent people.

 

Nope.

 

i think so to, you better check the law for philly, i dont think you can carry in philly.

 

If it is Philly law, it's a worthless law, and even Philly DAs won't charge you. Philly cannot make gun laws. Worst case is a Philly cop actually books you. Or shoots you.

If you have a valid carry permit that the state of PA recognizes, you have every right to carry concealed in Philly.

Yup, i checked before doing it. It was all rumors, and as the other posters stated , any law Philly makes that contradicts state laws is illegal. I was aware that I could be harassed, but I was concealed carry , so chances were minimal.

Yup, i checked before doing it. It was all rumors, and as the other posters stated , any law Philly makes that contradicts state laws is illegal. I was aware that I could be harassed, but I was concealed carry , so chances were minimal.

 

In Philly, that's exactly what I would do in your situation. If you know you are legal, but there may be peril, don't think twice but be discrete.

its the same as transporting any gun in NJ. its perfectly legal, you are 100% in your rights to do so. doesnt mean you wont get harassed, have your rights violated, guns confiscated, and spend thousands in legal fees should anything happen while doing so. all it takes is some ignorant a$$hole to give you a hard time. take the case of the guy with a pistol grip shotgun in his jeep a few months ago. he was 100% right and legal, yet look at what happened. that, and the cases in philly are wrong on every level.

 

none of that bull$hit would stop me from transporting in NJ or carrying in a cesspool like philly. but you have to do so at your own peril. such is the life of a pro-gunner in this area.

its the same as transporting any gun in NJ. its perfectly legal, you are 100% in your rights to do so. doesnt mean you wont get harassed, have your rights violated, guns confiscated, and spend thousands in legal fees should anything happen while doing so. all it takes is some ignorant a$$hole to give you a hard time. take the case of the guy with a pistol grip shotgun in his jeep a few months ago. he was 100% right and legal, yet look at what happened. that, and the cases in philly are wrong on every level.

 

none of that bull$hit would stop me from transporting in NJ or carrying in a cesspool like philly. but you have to do so at your own peril. such is the life of a pro-gunner in this area.

 

There was a post on here regarding that pistol gripped shotgun that said there was more to the story than what was first posted.

 

It's up to you and where you travel but, the probability of getting in trouble with the police in NJ scares me more than a bad guy in Philly.

philly recognizes Utah as one of their six. -lol

Good for you OP. I will have my FL CCW soon and am in the process of doing research on what CCW pistol i want. What did you carry?

 

I also plan on doing a lot of research as to where firearms are prohibited (esp in PA) and what signs are real (as in they can get you in trouble with the law, not just asked to leave if you are caught carrying).

I know in some states if its priv prop and they state no firearms and you are caught, you are simply asked to leave with no law repercussions (unless you refuse to leave obviously). Also in certain states, signs saying no firearms/concealed weapons need to say VERY specific words to make them stand in court.

 

National reciprocity, where are you!?!?

I was told that out of state ccw was a no go in the city of Philadelpia, ok every where else. I dont know that to be a fact just here say from diffrent people.

 

 

i think so to, you better check the law for philly, i dont think you can carry in philly.

 

 

Nope.

 

 

 

If it is Philly law, it's a worthless law, and even Philly DAs won't charge you. Philly cannot make gun laws. Worst case is a Philly cop actually books you. Or shoots you.

 

 

Yup, i checked before doing it. It was all rumors, and as the other posters stated , any law Philly makes that contradicts state laws is illegal. I was aware that I could be harassed, but I was concealed carry , so chances were minimal.

 

 

philly recognizes Utah as one of their six. -lol

 

 

Yep....leaving it to PHilly to actually pass an illegal ordinance....and yes UT is one of the permits they will "recognize". Just need someone to get charged to appeal and get the ordinance struck down.

Yep....leaving it to PHilly to actually pass an illegal ordinance....and yes UT is one of the permits they will "recognize". Just need someone to get charged to appeal and get the ordinance struck down.

 

 

Please note that the UT permit is no better (or worse) than any other permit from a state with which PA has reciprocity.

 

The states mentioned as "approved" by Philly are listed in their illegal ordinance and if you read that ordinance in its entirety, the "approved" permits only come into play after being reviewed by a competent court - which means after you've been (illegally) arrested. At the point a competent court reviews it, the whole mess will be thrown out / charges dismissed, due to preemption.

 

In PA only the state can formulate firearms laws, and only the state can enter into reciprocity agreements. You are GTG with any permit/license recognized by PA, anywhere in PA.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Good for you OP. I will have my FL CCW soon and am in the process of doing research on what CCW pistol i want. What did you carry?

 

I also plan on doing a lot of research as to where firearms are prohibited (esp in PA) and what signs are real (as in they can get you in trouble with the law, not just asked to leave if you are caught carrying).

I know in some states if its priv prop and they state no firearms and you are caught, you are simply asked to leave with no law repercussions (unless you refuse to leave obviously). Also in certain states, signs saying no firearms/concealed weapons need to say VERY specific words to make them stand in court.

 

National reciprocity, where are you!?!?

 

Carried my Taurus PT709 "slim" with +p PowRball ammunition. Gun belt from The Belt Man, and OWB holster from Side Guard Holsters. Took some getting used to, but it was a great setup. Easily concealable with an outside worn shirt or equivalent.

 

As for the signage in PA, AFAIK The owner of property for which signs are clearly posted can simply ask you to leave and you must comply and/or call the cops on you and charge you with trespassing if they wanted to. I didn't see a single place in Philly have such signs, except for some of the historical buildings on Federal property.

Yep....leaving it to PHilly to actually pass an illegal ordinance....and yes UT is one of the permits they will "recognize". Just need someone to get charged to appeal and get the ordinance struck down.

 

Nobody will be charged, the ordinance does not matter. You might be booked, you won't be charged. Unless they come up with something else.

 

And, As Pizza Bob said, it doesn't matter which ones Philly recognizes, only which ones PA does.

I understand the thread is focusing on whether or not you can carry in Philly given you have a PA CCW, but I thought a NJ resident could not obtain a PA CCW. I am assuming you only reside in NJ. I got this notion from the below link. I realize it is not the official code. See the parapraph near the bottom that starts Note that Pennsylvania State Law...

 

http://paccw.home.mindspring.com/

 

Thanks.

This should clarify things...

 

Also, Philly has no legal right to further place firearm restrictions other than what PA at the state level does already.

 

Note: It has come to the attention of the Office of Attorney General that there has been confusion over the applicability of Pennsylvania's reciprocal privileges with regard to the residency status of an individual who has been issued a valid license/permit. It is the position of the Office of Attorney General that recognition within Pennsylvania is based on the issuance to an individual of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence.

 

My link

Wow, thanks. So if I can get a ccw in a state recognized by PA reciprocity then I stand a chance to get a ccw non resident PA license? I imagine you lock it up in trunk while driving to PA and look for a phone booth in PA. What if pulled over in NJ, despite locked in trunk, and not going to/from range? Thanks again!

 

I like that PA Attorney General link you provided. I think it is disgusting that every state lists the name of an invididual you can contact except one, NJ. NJ gives you a PO box.

...I imagine you lock it up in trunk while driving to PA and look for a phone booth in PA. What if pulled over in NJ, despite locked in trunk, and not going to/from range? Thanks again!...

First, you don't ever consent to a search of your vehicle.

And second, you're engaged in interstate travel, going from where your firearm is legal (PRNJ) to your destination (PA) where it is also legal.

Unloaded, cased and in your trunk, unless you're dealing with PATH neanderthals, you're good to go under FOPA.

 

As for arrested & booked but not charged by Rizzo's Raiders (sorry, I'm really old!) for the illegal Philly carry ordinance, that would suck.

IANAL, but it would seem like a winner for a false arrest suit against Mayor Nutbag.

Wow, thanks. So if I can get a ccw in a state recognized by PA reciprocity then I stand a chance to get a ccw non resident PA license?

 

 

If you reside in NJ you cannot get a PA non-resident license without first obtaining a NJ CCW. However, if you have a license from a state with reciprocity with PA (FL, UT, etc), then there is no need to have a PA non-resident license in order to carry there - and that's ANYWHERE within PA borders (except of course for the usual statewide prohibitions - courthouses, schools, federal buildings).

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

If you reside in NJ you cannot get a PA non-resident license without first obtaining a NJ CCW. However, if you have a license from a state with reciprocity with PA (FL, UT, etc), then there is no need to have a PA non-resident license in order to carry there - and that's ANYWHERE within PA borders (except of course for the usual statewide prohibitions - courthouses, schools, federal buildings).

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

and those pesky GunFreeSchoolZones

Thanks all. I learned a lot.

First, you don't ever consent to a search of your vehicle.

And second, you're engaged in interstate travel, going from where your firearm is legal (PRNJ) to your destination (PA) where it is also legal.

Unloaded, cased and in your trunk, unless you're dealing with PATH neanderthals, you're good to go under FOPA.

 

As for arrested & booked but not charged by Rizzo's Raiders (sorry, I'm really old!) for the illegal Philly carry ordinance, that would suck.

IANAL, but it would seem like a winner for a false arrest suit against Mayor Nutbag.

 

i was actually going to ask the same question. so technically "unloaded" means no bullets in the magazine either right? So do you have to transport without the magazines loaded, then pull over at a rest stop to load the gun once you get into PA? Kinda sucks and what if someone sees you loading a mag?

i was actually going to ask the same question. so technically "unloaded" means no bullets in the magazine either right? So do you have to transport without the magazines loaded, then pull over at a rest stop to load the gun once you get into PA? Kinda sucks and what if someone sees you loading a mag?

 

FOPA also requires the gun and ammo to be locked in separate cases or locked vehicle compartment, maybe even the ammo. To be safe, a lockbox for both the pistol and ammo would be 110%. I don't see having the ammo in magazines being a problem as federal law does not stipulate that. I would also travel under NJ exemptions just to be double protected. Identify and plan to stop at a gun range or shop in PA during your trip, this way you are covered under the NJ HG travel exemption of going to a range or place of repair. Also, with FOPA, you could still be arrested, then have to later on raise the FOPA federal law to clear yourself, as described below.

 

My link

 

Under FOPA, notwithstanding any state or local law, a person is entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he or she may lawfully possess such firearm to any other place where he or she may lawfully possess it, if the firearm is unloaded and locked out of reach. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Ammunition that is either locked out of reach in the trunk or in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console is also covered. FOPA also seems to provide for necessary stops, like gasoline and rest.

 

Travelers should be aware that some state and local governments treat this federal provision as an “affirmative defense” that may only be raised after an arrest.

 

FOPA also requires the gun and ammo to be locked in separate cases or locked vehicle compartment, maybe even the ammo. To be safe, a lockbox for both the pistol and ammo would be 110%. I don't see having the ammo in magazines being a problem as federal law does not stipulate that. I would also travel under NJ exemptions just to be double protected. Identify and plan to stop at a gun range or shop in PA during your trip, this way you are covered under the NJ HG travel exemption of going to a range or place of repair. Also, with FOPA, you could still be arrested, then have to later on raise the FOPA federal law to clear yourself, as described below.

 

My link

 

I disagree about using a NJ exemption will do you much good. I don't see how this would stand up in court if you actually needed to use this in your defense. I think will make you look worse in the eyes of the law. The NJ law says you must make only those stops as necessary. Example 1: If you live in Freehold and hit the range at 2pm in Lakewood and you are stopped in Cherry Hill to/from PA at 6pm, how do you explain yourself in Cherry Hill where that is not between your home and the range?

 

Example 2: You leave your house in Freehold at 5pm and head for a range in PA. You are legal on the journey to the range. Once in PA, you are under PA and federal law. You don't have much restrictions. You shoot at the range at 6pm and then CCW and then return home later that night. On your journey home you get stopped in Cherry Hill at 11pm on your way home to Freehold. How do you explain yourself in Cherry Hill many hours from the time you shot at the range?

 

If you get stopped and detained for possession in NJ, FOPA is your only friend.

I disagree about using a NJ exemption will do you much good. I don't see how this would stand up in court if you actually needed to use this in your defense. I think will make you look worse in the eyes of the law. The NJ law says you must make only those stops as necessary. Example 1: If you live in Freehold and hit the range at 2pm in Lakewood and you are stopped in Cherry Hill to/from PA at 6pm, how do you explain yourself in Cherry Hill where that is not between your home and the range?

 

Example 2: You leave your house in Freehold at 5pm and head for a range in PA. You are legal on the journey to the range. Once in PA, you are under PA and federal law. You don't have much restrictions. You shoot at the range at 6pm and then CCW and then return home later that night. On your journey home you get stopped in Cherry Hill at 11pm on your way home to Freehold. How do you explain yourself in Cherry Hill many hours from the time you shot at the range?

 

If you get stopped and detained for possession in NJ, FOPA is your only friend.

 

Example 2 is what I'm talking about. You went to the range in PA at 2pm and coming home at 6pm to NJ. NJ exemptions are only in effect while in NJ, so the "direct to and from" only applies when you leave and re-enter the border. You could stop for food and go sightseeing while in PA, provided that when you re-enter NJ, you go directly home. How could NJ prove that you were "indirectly" going home.

 

Regardless, we all know NJ laws can be twisted to allow the state to press charges, and the only sure thing is that with both NJ laws and even FOPA, you may be in a situation where you have to defend yourself in court to prove that you are in the right. Many NJ gun laws are written to be "guilty until proven innocent". This is why I would double up on my travels with the HG to PA. Adhere to NJ and FOPA rules, and the state would have little grounds on an illegal possession charge.

FOPA also requires the gun and ammo to be locked in separate cases or locked vehicle compartment, maybe even the ammo. To be safe, a lockbox for both the pistol and ammo would be 110%. I don't see having the ammo in magazines being a problem as federal law does not stipulate that. I would also travel under NJ exemptions just to be double protected. Identify and plan to stop at a gun range or shop in PA during your trip, this way you are covered under the NJ HG travel exemption of going to a range or place of repair. Also, with FOPA, you could still be arrested, then have to later on raise the FOPA federal law to clear yourself, as described below.

 

My link

 

 

FOPA does not require separating gun from ammo.

 

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

 

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.