I'd really appreciate a quick tutorial on the pros and cons of AR style rifles/carbines in 5.56 NATO, 6.8 SPC and 7.62 NATO, including effective range and accuracy.

 

This could be pressed into home defense role, but would primarily be a range firearm. Looking to get it scoped eventually. Ammo expense seems reasonable to me, given how much higher performance rifle rounds are versus handgun ammo. It does seem the larger bores are less common and more $. I just like buying effective calibers, my handguns are .45acp and .357 Magnum, so I've not considered AR replicas in 22lr.

 

Thanks,

Blue1

I'm not really an AR guy, but depending on where you live an AR would most likely be a bad choice for a home defense gun. You would risk shooting you neighbor half a mile down the road. So if you were just going to use it as a range gun then 5.56/.223 would be the way to go as far as costs go. Good luck.

without getting into yet another pistol caliber war, enough research will show that despite what gun rags and sheeple say, the 45 and 357 are NOT guaranteed 1 shot stoppers. NO pistol round is, REGARDLESS of the ammo.

 

if 223/556 was such an underpowered round, it wouldnt still be in use 60 years after inception. there are hundreds of thousands of vietcong and taliban dead thanks to the AR caliber. having said that, the only way id use a rifle for HD would be with very special and expensive ammo, probably frangible.

 

if youre looking for range shooting with price considerations, the only choice is regular 223/5.56. 308 is expensive, and just plain forget about 6.8. if you can FIND 6.8, be prepared to pay an average of $1 per round. good russian ammo, like silver bear, can be had for .20 per round in 223. get a full length barrel, flat top, and put whatever scope you want on it.

The 'specialty flavor' AR's are cool, like 6.5 Grendel, .50 Beowulf, or .300 AAC Whisper but the one huge thing thats wrong with them? Price. To build an AR chambered for 6.5 Grendel would cost around 2,000 dollars. Ammo alone will cost you a mint. Am I saying they're bad? Not by a long shot. The military was doing tests to switch the AR platform to 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 Remmington SPC. So the rounds are proven, and tested, and used by a group of target shooters. But in a HD role both calibers will over penetrate and take anything behind it. For this the 5.56/.223 will do the job well with hollow point ammuntion, or soft point. The price for an AR is cheap, they're cheap to build (around 600 for no frills), and cheap to feed.

You don't get into the sport to save money.

 

If you want an ar, get one. It is not a practical home defense gun, it is a range gun and a weapons system for engaging targets 50 yards out. If you want one for home defense, look at pistol caliber carbines like the beretta Cx 4 storm and kriss vector.

 

If you really wanted. 308 ar 10, or a 6.5, or 6.8, or 5.45 x 39, or a single shot 338 lapua, you would know it.

You don't get into the sport to save money.

 

If you want an ar, get one. It is not a practical home defense gun, it is a range gun and a weapons system for engaging targets 50 yards out. If you want one for home defense, look at pistol caliber carbines like the beretta Cx 4 storm and kriss vector.

 

If you really wanted. 308 ar 10, or a 6.5, or 6.8, or 5.45 x 39, or a single shot 338 lapua, you would know it.

 

Agreed. You would need to use frang. ammo so you don't over penetrate. I wouldn't be grabbing my AR for home defense. If we were allowed to have SBR's, well then we'd be talking but a 16" barreled AR seems to long for HD IMO.

 

I'd prefer to have a shotty over my AR or a Carbine as Maks said.

You don't get into the sport to save money.

 

If you want an ar, get one. It is not a practical home defense gun, it is a range gun and a weapons system for engaging targets 50 yards out. If you want one for home defense, look at pistol caliber carbines like the beretta Cx 4 storm and kriss vector.

 

If you really wanted. 308 ar 10, or a 6.5, or 6.8, or 5.45 x 39, or a single shot 338 lapua, you would know it.

 

5.56 is less likely to penetrate interior walls than 9mm, .40, or .45...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

 

Only 12ga penetrates the least, but it'll still go through 3-4 interior walls (which is still alot!)

 

 

Also, even in NJ, you can make an AR-15 very compact (pin the stock all the way collapsed and 14.5" bbl), and it will definitely be shorter than any CX 4, Kriss Vector, or 12ga shotgun while still easy to handle. So discounting it as a practical HD weapon may be a bit premature.

 

It also holds more ammunition than any NJ legal shotgun (unless you have a ridiculous pump), can mount rails and accessories as well.

 

Up to the OP though... but it's ice to have options

 

My only issue with ARs and shotguns for HD is where to stow the thing safely, and out of the way. I use a cleaning service for my home (my brother and I suck at cleaning), and I'd rather keep the long guns in the safe. I use a 9mm for now until I get my .45ACP back from Glock.

I'm not really an AR guy, but depending on where you live an AR would most likely be a bad choice for a home defense gun. You would risk shooting you neighbor half a mile down the road. So if you were just going to use it as a range gun then 5.56/.223 would be the way to go as far as costs go. Good luck.

 

Watch this video

Ugh - it looks like they're saying "use birdshot".

My opinion:

 

5.56 out of a 14.5 or 16" barrel for a general purpose range gun that can also be used for HD. Load up some specialty ammo for HD use.

 

If you want to get into precision type shooting over 300 yards, I would then look at 7.62 platforms. Then again, I would not use 7.62 for HD. The same rules for 5.56 through drywall do not apply to 7.62.

Ugh - it looks like they're saying "use birdshot".

 

That'll irritate an attacker.

That'll irritate an attacker.

 

Sure would piss me the h3ll off!! haha

That video mirrors pretty much the other similer tests I have seen. At this stage with so many having performed these tests and posted the results, I cant understand why the statement of 5.56 rifles will cause an overpenetration danger keeps getting repeated as fact. Its simply not true........

 

The test I usually quote and have posted on this forum a couple times already:

 

by Gunsite Training Center Staff

A Comparison of .223 Penetration vs. Handgun Calibers

The .223 shoulder-fired weapon systems (e.g., AUG, CAR) have received some recent interest as indoor tactical weapons for special operations teams. increased power, longer effective distances, and greater tactical flexibility have been cited as positive factors of the .223 systems over 9me SMG-type weapon systems. Other authors (Fackler, et all) have postulated greater capa-bility for tissue damage and incapacitation of the .223 rifle cartridge over the 9mm projectile fired from handguns or SMGs. Negative considerations for the indoor use of the .223 weapon systems focus on over-penetration of projectiles and possible subsequent liability.

Our effort was made to compare the penetration characteristics of various .223 bullets to various handgun bullets fired into test barriers representing indoor and outdoor building walls. We felt that the following test might mimic shots fired from inside a building, through the internal rooms, out the exterior wall, and into another similar building nearby. A comparison of wall penetration effects by a variety of handgun calibers versus the effects of .223 FMJ ball, .223 SP, and .223 HP, under these same conditions, was expected to substantiate other findings reported or provide new information to those interested in this area of ballistics.

Two interior test walls were constructed using a wood 2x4 frame with standard drywall board attached to both sides. Two exterior test walls were made using wooden frames with drywall board attached to one side and exterior grade T1-11 wooden siding attached on the other (exterior) side. R-19 fiberglass insulation batting (Dow Coming) was stapled inside the two exterior test wails. To maintain test medium consistency, no wooden cross beams, electrical fixtures, conduits, or electrical wiring were placed in any of the test walls.

The test walls were placed in the following sequence to mimic shots fired from. inside a building, through two internal rooms, out the building, and into another similarly constructed building:

A. Interior wall #1 was placed 8 feet from the shooting position.

B. Interior wail #2 was placed 8 feet beyond interior wall #1.

C. Exterior wall #1 was placed 8 feet beyond interior wail #2. (Exteri-or side facing away from the shooter.)

D. Exterior wall #2 was placed 15 feet beyond exterior wall #1. (Exterior side facing toward the shooter.)

All calibers tested were fired from a position 8 feet in front of interior wall #l, so the bullet trajectory would travel in sequence through each of the succeeding test walls. Each caliber tested was chronographed and all firing results were videotaped for archive files.

The following results were obtained:

1. All handgun calibers exited exterior wall #1. This means they exited the "house" after passing through two interior "rooms," then entered another "house" to impact into the berm. The handgun caliber which demonstrated the least penetration was .22 LR Lightning.

2. The only calibers which did NOT exit the "house" were .223 (5.56) soft point and hollow point loaded bullets.

3. All projectiles demonstrated directional changes in their trajectory after passing through the first interior wall. The greatest directional changes (10 inches+ yaw) were shown by 9mm and .40 S&W projectiles.

4. Directional changes in bullet trajectory appeared to increase in magnitude with each test wall the projectile passed through.

The penetration characteristics of projectiles have long been believed to be primarily determined by a relationship of bullet mass, bullet shape, bullet velocity, and bullet construction. The penetration differences of .223 soft point and hollow point projectiles versus the effects from .223 full metal jacket may be due to differences in bullet construction. The differential effects on penetration due to bullet construction shown with the .223 are different and appear greater in magnitude than those encountered when handgun bullet construction is modified. Since .223 projectile velocities are threefold greater than those of handgun projectiles, the increased magnitude of bullet velocity might account for the differences in bullet trajectory and penetration distance. The deviated trajectory of hollow point handgun projectiles was also greater than the deviation found with full metal jacketed handgun bullets; again, possibly due to contact point deformation. The preceding study more than ever identifies the need for a personal emphasis of marksmanship and tactical fundamentals. The shooter is responsible for the bullets that go downrange. Practice, be aware, manage your trigger, and watch your front sight!

Many thanks to Jack Furr, Ron Benson, Pete Wright, and Seth NadeI, U.S. Customs, for conducting and reporting this test.

.22 LR 40 gr Lightning 899 fps Captured in exterior wall #2

9mm 147gr Win JHP 948 fps Captured in exterior wall #2

9mm 147 gr Win JHP 1004 fps Exited exterior wall #2

.40 S&W 180 gr FMJ 941 fps Exited exterior wall #2

.40 S&W 180 gr Black Talon JHP 981 fps Exited exterior wall #2

.45 ACP 230 gr Win FMJ ball 867 fps Captured in exterior wall #2

.45 ACP 230 gr HydraShok JHP 851 fps Exited exterior wall #2

.223 (5.56) 55 gr Fed FMJ ball 2956 fps Exited exterior wall #2

.223 (5.56) 55 gr Rem SP 3019 fps Captured in exterior wall #2

.223 (5.56) 55 gr Fed JHP 3012 fps Captured in exterior wall #2

I'll tell you this much, I don't want to be shot with anything.

 

I was shooting USPSA this past weekend and had a piece of shrapnel come off a plate, hit me above my mouth and stick right in it. I had to dig it out. I'm not going to say it hurt, but it sure surpised me. It felt like someone flicked me pretty hard in the face. When I dug it out, it was tiny. Size of a pencil point. So I think people will be more then a little pissed off if they get shot with birdshot at a few feet. Is it the ideal HD ammo? No, but I sure wouldn't want to be shot with it either.

 

Back on topic. As far as I am concerned .223/5.56 is good enough for general purpose use. 100 to 200 yard shooting. Fire away. If you want to consistently shoot further than that, and have the bankroll to do so, feel free to get a .308/7.62. I would still start off with a .223/5.56 though and get your marksmanship skills up a bit. Besides, if do end up liking and wanting a .308, you can always sell the 5.56 or keep it around to bring a buddy to the range and get him into shooting.

One big con of going outside the norm calibers on the ar platform is availability. With 5.56 and 308, generally Surplus can be found to shoot on the cheap. Everything else, not so much. I have delved into the boutique calibers before and always ended up back with the standards.

Yeah my buddy just bought an ar but he ended up buying the .50 Beowulf. Now don't get me wrong I have nothing against owning this round but I would atleast have gotten a 5.56/.223 upper also. I mean an ar that costs $10 a round is crazy to me and where the hell do you even buy ammo for it. On a good note 30 round mags are ok for him because on that gun they only hold like 10 rounds.