I may pick up a used SAR3 to add to the AK collection. In their stock configuration they don't possess any legality issues for NJ... correct? Nude barrel/no threads and no accessory or bayonet lugs. At least that's the way it appears when I looked at photos of the gun and read through the PDF manual online. I know some of you guys have SARs so I figured I'd be able to gather the proper info. Thanks fellas

I believe the SAR3 caliber is 5.56/.223 correct? :roll eyes: Eff that caliber...

 

Not trying to give you crap, since if you really want it then why not? But my guess is it's gonna be a pain to find those specific mag's, especially NJ legal (-15rds) nonetheless. I'm pretty sure you can't use x39 or 5.45 mags, but I've heard you can modify 5.45 mags to work? Modifying seems to be hit or miss though. In terms of NJ legalization, all the SAR's I have seen have lugs and threaded barrels to accept muzzle devices, but maybe you're doesn't? There are so many variants that you never know nowadays.

 

I would suggest getting a SAR that's chambered in 5.45 or 7.62 due to the cheapness of ammo and more readily available mags and such.

 

But hey, that's just me. In the end, you get what you really want of course!

 

Edit: Just reread your post and realized you stated 'to add to your collection,' so I am guessing you already have a few variants. In that case, I'm guessing you want something 'else' rather than 5.45 or 7.62, so in that case, I'd say go for it whether finding mags is a crap shoot or not.

 

Also, I'm sure Glenn will add his variant knowledge in here at one point or another.

Lol to the eye rolling. I have two 7.62s a 5.45 and an S12. I think I have the AK variant thing pretty well covered. Aside from the fact that .223 is in the top 10 most popular USA rifle carts... possibly even top 5. Eventhough there is a ton of 7.62x39, which I agree is abundant and cheap, the 7.62x39 isn't on that list. When SHTF is there gonna be more .223 or 7.62X39? I'd probably take my chances with .223. So why not have my favorite type of rifle in that chamber? An AK in .223??? How could you go wrong? Mags are no problem at all... I don't agree with that. I can get pinned East German .223 mags easy... no sweat. 5.45 mags with 5.56 followers wouldn't be first choice... better off with actual 5.56 mags. Either the E.German, Bulgarian or possibly even modified Norinco mags... not sure about that one though. Not worried about mags really.

Well it seems like you have quite a collection so far so it's obvious you know what you're doing! If mags are abundant and available, then go for it.

 

I agree with you, AK's are my favorite rifle as well...but...I just can't help but think 'oxymoron' when I see 'AK' and '.223' in the same sentence

SARs are one of the best off the shelf AKs you can get, and in stock form are NJ legal to boot! However, .223/5.56 has a few terrible downfalls especicially with the platform. Part of the AKs reliability comes from the round itself. The 7.62x39 & 5.45x39 cases have quite a hefty taper. This means that even if the case is jammed hard into the chamber, the bolt simply needs to cam it out just a hair and due to its wedge shape it is %100 free and clear of the chamber walls for the remainder of the extraction. While .223/5.56 is tecnically tapered, it is for all intents and purposes straight walled. This means that the rifle in adverse conditions has to drag the case out the entire length of extraction. The other downfall which is applicable to M4s as well is that .223/5.56 is optimized for 20" barrels, and even in a 20" barrel its a pretty lame performing round. Shooting it out of a 16" barrel is just lame. 5.45x39, its "equal", is much better designed due to its optimization for the 16" barrel plus the hollow nose, steel knocker results in very devistating terminal ballistics.

 

So in the end you pay more for a worse performing platform. Recessedfilter also brought up a valid point on mags. They are rarer, more expensive, less reliable, and 15 rounders are non-existant. Not worth it IMHO

while people are telling you 223 in an AK is stupid.. I will tell you from first hand experience out to a 100 in a Saiga it ran just fine for me... I abused the hell out of it and never saw any actual malfunctions.. no FTF.. no FTE.. this does not mean that a 7.62x39 AK isn't better (I think that it is...) but that doesn't mean that an AK in a common round like 223 is a bad idea... It would not be my first choice.. but if I came across the right 223 Saiga at a dirt cheap price.. I would probably pick up another..

However, .223/5.56 has a few terrible downfalls especicially with the platform. Part of the AKs reliability comes from the round itself. The 7.62x39 & 5.45x39 cases have quite a hefty taper. This means that even if the case is jammed hard into the chamber, the bolt simply needs to cam it out just a hair and due to its wedge shape it is %100 free and clear of the chamber walls for the remainder of the extraction. While .223/5.56 is tecnically tapered, it is for all intents and purposes straight walled. This means that the rifle in adverse conditions has to drag the case out the entire length of extraction. The other downfall which is applicable to M4s as well is that .223/5.56 is optimized for 20" barrels, and even in a 20" barrel its a pretty lame performing round. Shooting it out of a 16" barrel is just lame. 5.45x39, its "equal", is much better designed due to its optimization for the 16" barrel plus the hollow nose, steel knocker results in very devistating terminal ballistics.

 

Glenn that is awesome information... I mean just stellar info! Quite frankly it makes me question whether or not I want to pursue .223 in an AK platform... Aside from the mags of course. 15 rounders don't exist but I can get 15/30's no problem. And from what I read the East German mags feed fine... I read very few threads where people complained of feeding problems. Let me tell you why I chose to pursue a SAR specifically. I DON'T HAVE ONE! LMMFAO! And from what I understand they have looser tolerances than Saigas, therefore maintain more overall reliablity. So... if I'm going to pursue a .223 variant and already know there are going to be some potential reliabilty problems associated with the cartridge it should probably be a SAR versus a Saiga. People argue over the build quality of SARs and WASRs versus Saigas... Saigas probably are of better build quality... I mean... I guess. Who knows. But Glenn... you do raise great points, however, having two 7.62s and a 5.45 I need new territory to explore and I thought a .223 may be it. I don't want to have problems of course. I was just thinking of a SHTF situation and having to scavenge the country side in search of ammo. 7.62 v 5.45 v .223? What will there be more surplus of when no more ammo is readily available? But I hear ya... with AK lovers, myself included, we have apprehensions and an aversion to .223. Dude... I don't even own anything chambered in .223 yet if you can believe that... and my safe is pretty full.

And oh... Glenn... I'm sure you are a historically correct kind of gun guy. Am I wrong? So having a NATO chamber in a Commie gun just doesn't make sense to you. I get that1 I'm a historically correct kind of guy myself. I mean look at it... I'm scrounging for something to do AK related... it will most likely be the 5th and probably last AK variant.

Glenn that is awesome information... I mean just stellar info! Quite frankly it makes me question whether or not I want to pursue .223 in an AK platform... Aside from the mags of course. 15 rounders don't exist but I can get 15/30's no problem. And from what I read the East German mags feed fine... I read very few threads where people complained of feeding problems. Let me tell you why I chose to pursue a SAR specifically. I DON'T HAVE ONE! LMMFAO! And from what I understand they have looser tolerances than Saigas, therefore maintain more overall reliablity. So... if I'm going to pursue a .223 variant and already know there are going to be some potential reliabilty problems associated with the cartridge it should probably be a SAR versus a Saiga. People argue over the build quality of SARs and WASRs versus Saigas... Saigas probably are of better build quality... I mean... I guess. Who knows. But Glenn... you do raise great points, however, having two 7.62s and a 5.45 I need new territory to explore and I thought a .223 may be it. I don't want to have problems of course. I was just thinking of a SHTF situation and having to scavenge the country side in search of ammo. 7.62 v 5.45 v .223? What will there be more surplus of when no more ammo is readily available? But I hear ya... with AK lovers, myself included, we have apprehensions and an aversion to .223. Dude... I don't even own anything chambered in .223 yet if you can believe that... and my safe is pretty full.

 

 

if what you are saying is true my personal experience tells me that you are highly unlikely to have issues with a 223 SAR since I ran one of my 223 Saigas pretty heavy.. threw it in the snow and all that.. no FTF no FTE.. I say make the purchase.. you can always sell it later if you are not pleased...

And oh... Glenn... I'm sure you are a historically correct kind of gun guy. Am I wrong? So having a NATO chamber in a Commie gun just doesn't make sense to you. I get that1 I'm a historically correct kind of guy myself. I mean look at it... I'm scrounging for something to do AK related... it will most likely be the 5th and probably last AK variant.

 

Yes, I do enjoy the historically correct models myself

 

Vlad, about your .223. I never said it wont be reliable at all, I just said it will be less reliable. Im sure the .223 took some punishment but if you subjected the .223 side by side with 7.62x39 (or 5.45) guns to worse and worse debris then im sure the .223 will fail first. In the end though, it will still be more reliable than an AR15