So now that I have my first gun I'm looking online for ammo. Someone sent me to http://www.natchezss.com which is a great site that has a lot of cheap deals. Now I go to 9mm, sort by price low to high and I find some nice prices, but I hesitate and ask.. are there any brands that generally people stay away from? and for what reasons? Specific ones I'm looking at include Wolf, Sellier and Bellot, CGI Blazer, PMC, Magtech. Just a noob worrying about taking care of my gun. Figure I should get 1 box of some of them to test it before I stack up, and then I figured a better idea is to ask the experienced knowledgeable people of NJGF for their opinions.

Check http://www.ammoengine.com/ also.

 

As a general rule, steel-cased ammo is cheaper than brass. Some feel that steel ammo causes unnecessary wear on the gun, but YMMV. Personally, I'd recommend the cheapest brass-cased ammo that will feed reliably in your gun. Good luck!

Cheapest is to reload... but when buying...

 

for 9mm...

 

Aimsurplus

Cabela's online when they have sales and $5 shipping

Walmart

 

For surplus... Aim Surplus

 

Personally, I would stay away from steel cased ammo, especially in a newer gun. I just dont trust alot of it, but I truly care about feeding the best. Dont cheap out. You did not buy a BMW just to save a few cents filling it with off brand regular when the car requires super.

yea I am leaning toward skipping over the steel cased for that fear and because I can't reload it. Even if I don't get into reloading as soon as I want to, then I would still sell my brass for some money back. Won't be able to do that with steel. So it looks like Wolf might be a skip.

I like the Remington UMC - $50 for 250 rounds in the Mega Pack.

yea I am leaning toward skipping over the steel cased for that fear and because I can't reload it. Even if I don't get into reloading as soon as I want to, then I would still sell my brass for some money back. Won't be able to do that with steel. So it looks like Wolf might be a skip.

 

I would not even worry about that.

 

Steel case will not run in some guns, especially AR's with tighter tolerances or tighter springs.

 

Steel does not seal and form to the chamber as brass will. Thus, in some AR's, it runs fine, in others, It would not have as good of a seal, and would not have the ooomph to cycle the bolt all the way, and you would have either FTE or FTF issues.

 

You have this issue, to a lesser extent in handguns. Once the spring is broken in, you should have less issues, or no issues.

 

The other aspect is with the bullet that they use themselves. Some steel cased stuff is nothing more than steel core ammo, with a very thin jacket that gets broken up, or is cut into by the rifling, leaving steel rubbing against barrel. There was a post I was reading before where this was tested, various ammo was shot, pulled and looked at. Many of the russian steel cased ammo, was nothing more than repackaged old military rounds.

very interesting, so there is a reason the russian ammo is the cheapest out there. what about the brass brands tho? Sellier and Bellot, CGI Blazer, PMC, Magtech. Is there a reason these are cheaper than say remington and winchester? or are they just as good?

very interesting, so there is a reason the russian ammo is the cheapest out there. what about the brass brands tho? Sellier and Bellot, CGI Blazer, PMC, Magtech. Is there a reason these are cheaper than say remington and winchester? or are they just as good?

 

If you put your gun in a vise and shoot them at 25yds you may notice one grouping better than the other, but as a general rule any of that ammo is going to shoot more accurate than you will. There won't be any difference between those brands that you will notice.

Out of the other ammo brands you listed...

 

S&B is really good, except the brass for reloading is a bit more difficult. Ammo is typically loaded a tad hot, and some rounds are infact steel core.

 

CCI Blazer is good ammo at a very reasonable price. Blazer comes in steel and brass varieties. Blazer Brass is good ammo.

 

PMC is really good too. For commercial 223, I love it. Did not shoot alot of 9mm but the components seem good. When I met with the representatives at Shot Show, they were very focused on good quality ammo.

 

Not familiar with others.

ahh see thats what i was looking for. if the cheaper brands are crap. so yes on russian for crap, no on the rest. that helps a lot. ty everyone.

Dont take this the wrong way... the russian ammo is not crap. It is very reliable, and in alot of cases very accurate. It just has trade offs. If I did not care about wear on the gun, I would absolutely use it. My SHTF mags are loaded with Wolf 223 for my AK, and PMC and Federal Tactical 223 for my AR's.

 

Functionally, the steel cased, and corrosive surplus ammo is very reliable and effective, it is just to me.... it is worth spending a $1 or so per box more to get brass cased ammo. I see more use out of it, as you have the brass that you can reload.

 

If I was just a typical shooter, ie go to the range, blow off 100 rounds, I would probably buy the cheapest ammo I can find.

I am really starting to like the S&B loads. They are nice from the factory and the brass is beefy which makes my life better as a reloader.

Remington UMC and Winchester white box are both great for me too, just a little dirty in some calibers.

 

Im not a fan of the Blazer aluminum case. Ive had some bullet setback issues with a couple different calibers and I have all but given up on the brand.

 

I have no experience with the steel so I dont really have any input but it seems that jon and maks have that pretty well handled.

I had one of the Blazer aluminum 9MM cases split lengthwise in my XD9. I pulled the trigger and sparks shot out of the ejection port and made an odd sound.

I've shoot tons of steel and aluminum cased ammo in my handguns without a single issue.

Shoot brass, and collect the cases as often as you can. You'll either get into reloading and be glad you collected them, or you'll be awash with brass that you can sell to a reloader here on the forum. Win-win

I've purchased quite a lot of ammo from Natchezss. If you order early enough in the day, it's at your door in 2 days. The issue with them is shipping. The first box is $15 or so, but each box after that is pennies so you have to buy a lot to make it worthwhile. When they run a sale, I often pick up a case of 9mm or .223.

 

I only run brass ammo. Blazer is Aluminum but I do run Blazer Brass. My favorite 9mm is CCI Lawman. It's fully loaded to Saami and I've never had a Malf with it. The best advice I can give is that you're going to have to shoot a bunch of different stuff until you find one that works better for you. I'm not a fan of Sellior and Bellot but I'll still shoot it.

anyone have any experience with the brand "canned heat"? I am on the fence about buying them. The reviews online say they are good for pistol but there have been some problems in the past with the AR rounds.

Thats the Georgia Arms stuff right?

 

Ive seen both positive and negative reviews just like everything else. You need to go into it that its a reload and be cautious.

 

I make it a practice to not shoot random reloads or rounds that are laying around on the range, call me a sissy.

 

When I first got into shooting I was told that the gun is going to be the inexpensive part of the equation with ammo being much more money. You need to ask yourself if its worth your safety and your $$$ hardware to save a few bucks. I load my own ammo to specs that are almost absurdly anal retentive, but I know exactly what im shooting when I pull the trigger.

Check out these places as well.

 

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com

http://www.sgammo.com

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18|829|837

http://www.surplusammo.com/

Georgia Arms ammo is good stuff. Great prices. Usually fairly warm ammo. Before I reloaded, I used to buy all my 10mm from them.

what pistol do you have. dont be scared about using wolf, brown bear, etc. if it was so dangerous, it wouldnt be sold. the only problem is some pistols dont like it. my beretta will eat wolf all day, every day, and never ever have an issue. my HK USP 40 will jam once every other mag on wolf.

 

that being said, silver bear is the best russian ammo ive used. my AR will NEVER feel wolf or tula out of pmags.....but will feed silver bear. its cleaner, the zinc coating is slicker and less likely to gum up, and is within pennies of wolf/tula. if you can find silver bear in 9mm, use it and it will more then likely feed in any pistol you shoot it out of.

The fear of using steel cased ammo is usually unfounded and perpetuated by things read on the internet and other myths about it. For example

 

You did not buy a BMW just to save a few cents filling it with off brand regular when the car requires super.

 

This is rarely a valid comparison. Most firearms don't require brass cased ammo to be fired. If it does, then it probably isn't a premium firearm to begin with, and a better comparison would be buying a cheap car and having to spend more money just to keep it running.

 

Of course I cannot speak for every different firearm, or even your specific firearm that may happen to be the same make and model I have. Of course they are all different, and if yours does not seem to function with steel cased, then it doesn't function with steel cased. However because person X's AR doesn't work well with it isn't a reason that you cannot. I have fired exactly 1000 rounds of the cheapest steel cased ammo I could fine through my AR and did not have a single feeding issue, firing issue, extraction issue, ejection issue, or any other issue. So when I can buy over 600 rounds more using steel cased over brass cased, why wouldn't I? If you don't reload, why wouldn't you?

The other aspect is with the bullet that they use themselves. Some steel cased stuff is nothing more than steel core ammo, with a very thin jacket that gets broken up, or is cut into by the rifling, leaving steel rubbing against barrel. There was a post I was reading before where this was tested, various ammo was shot, pulled and looked at. Many of the russian steel cased ammo, was nothing more than repackaged old military rounds.

 

None of the commercial steel case stuff has a steel core and even if it did, it would have no effect on the bore of any gun because the core isnt touching the barrel. What is critical is the jacket, which is typically mild steel that is copper washed with a .005" layer of copper which is fine because again, its the copper thats actually on your bore not the steel. The jacket may seperate from the lead core after impact but the copper will NOT seperate from the steel even after impact. If this was the case people doing mag dump after mag dump in 5.45x39 AKs with steel case, steel core, and steel jacket ammo would have no barrel left after like....3 mags.

 

S&B and Greek 30-06 also use bi-metal bullets and they are no different in composition than wolf. So why are S&B Bi-metal bullets OK in your guns and wolf not?

I use wolf and Brown bear ALOT in 9mm and .223. Don't shy away from it based on it being steel cased alone. Buy a few boxes of whatever caliber you need and try it in your gun. For whatever reason, some guns just don't like it but if yours does use it!

None of the commercial steel case stuff has a steel core and even if it did, it would have no effect on the bore of any gun because the core isnt touching the barrel. What is critical is the jacket, which is typically mild steel that is copper washed with a .005" layer of copper which is fine because again, its the copper thats actually on your bore not the steel. The jacket may seperate from the lead core after impact but the copper will NOT seperate from the steel even after impact. If this was the case people doing mag dump after mag dump in 5.45x39 AKs with steel case, steel core, and steel jacket ammo would have no barrel left after like....3 mags.

 

S&B and Greek 30-06 also use bi-metal bullets and they are no different in composition than wolf. So why are S&B Bi-metal bullets OK in your guns and wolf not?

 

 

Glenn, that is exactly what I'm saying. The jacket is so thin, that the steel core is actually touching the rifling. I believe it was in an issue of Front Sight magazine, have to dig it up somewhere.

Found it.

 

http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8

Found it.

 

http://www.uspsa.org...-BiMetal-Ammo-8

 

Good article. Now he needs to do the followup of how much the exposed steel erodes and degrades barrels.

I am surprised no one mentioned Amerc. Not sure if they are still around but the ammo sucks.

what pistol do you have. dont be scared about using wolf, brown bear, etc. if it was so dangerous, it wouldnt be sold. the only problem is some pistols dont like it. my beretta will eat wolf all day, every day, and never ever have an issue. my HK USP 40 will jam once every other mag on wolf.

 

that being said, silver bear is the best russian ammo ive used. my AR will NEVER feel wolf or tula out of pmags.....but will feed silver bear. its cleaner, the zinc coating is slicker and less likely to gum up, and is within pennies of wolf/tula. if you can find silver bear in 9mm, use it and it will more then likely feed in any pistol you shoot it out of.

 

 

No one is saying using non-brass cased ammo is dangerous. It functions fine and there are no issues. The issue comes from the extra wear that goes on your barrel from the bullets that are shot with this type of ammo.

 

The Bi-metal bullets are a thin coating of copper on top of cheap steel. Steel against your barrel causes more wear on your firearm's barrel.

I am really starting to like the S&B loads. They are nice from the factory and the brass is beefy which makes my life better as a reloader.

Remington UMC and Winchester white box are both great for me too, just a little dirty in some calibers.

 

Im not a fan of the Blazer aluminum case. Ive had some bullet setback issues with a couple different calibers and I have all but given up on the brand.

 

I have no experience with the steel so I dont really have any input but it seems that jon and maks have that pretty well handled.

 

 

I was recently stopped from using s&b at bullethole (very nicely and tactfully I will add) The reason given was the s&b rounds were not consistant loads and one blew up on the hands of a shooter.

 

Anyone else hear anything like this?