So after almost 9 months for a simple change of address and 2 permits i got a strange call.

I checked my voice mail and got this message "hello this is captain XXXX from the Long Branch police

department..I'm calling about your fire arm permits if you could call me back at ext." I have gotten handgun

permits before and almost never talked to the captain before. I called him back and he started drilling me

asking what type of guns i was getting ...said .44 DE and Sig 226. What are my plans for these guns. Because you know

I'm going to flat out say "I'm planning a big a** spree of crime this weekend and need them asap". Followed by have

I had any training before, told him about my CCWs in America not the commie republic of NJ. Where i goto shoot and what

active memberships and clubs do i belong to. After i answered all that he go "well you got a glowing recommendation from

your references so I'm going to go ahead and issue these permits next week. I just loved his condescending tone and how he

was doing me this great justice allowing me to buy a few more guns. I called my references and they said they were asked

all kinds of crazy questions about me and thought the form was just enough.

 

Is this the new norm for NJ now? I see my neighboring town Red Bank does something almost like it.

 

My other friends have gave up trying to buy guns in NJ...i feel bad for them because they let the state win.

I will not give in to this state and its "your a criminal unless we say otherwise" attitude

We need to stop letting this happen, This is not part of the application..

He does not have any business in what guns you want to purchase, what training you've had, any of that.

 

It's obvious he was testing you, and I'm sure your answers depended on if you were going to be denied or not, but in most other situations I would attempt to not completely answer those questions or beat around the bush.

You should have refused to answer the questions

Yes, lets refuse so he holds up or deny's him for failing to answer his questions. Legal or not his only recourse would be lengthy and expensive litigation. So unless you're willing to foot the bill, telling him to refuse is a bad idea.

 

Until things change in Trenton (aka never), we have to play cards we're dealt if we want to own guns in the crap hole we call home.

 

I should be grateful my town is on the ball and follows the exact letter of the law concerning firearms. It took me 6 weeks to get my FID, takes me 2 weeks to get handgun permits. They don't bug me for extra paper work, ask dumb questions, recheck references, or any of that BS. Most of the cops there ask me what I'm thinking of buying when I drop off paper work, then proceed to offer suggestions as to what they think I should get

Why do you need a gun? "For all lawful purposes" has a very nice ring to it.

 

I've never been asked what I intend to buy. I would probably respond with "probably a .22 NEOS, something for plinking at cans and targets." Which in all honestly would be the truth. You could always change your mind later...

 

If you are looking for a Sig P226, I have a friend of mine who is looking to sell his for $500. He bought it 10 years ago, put 200 rounds through it and its been sitting in a safe ever since. PM me.

Yes i know i probably should have just told him I wasn't going to answer those stupid questions,

however being how i knew there was nothing that should have stopped me i had paid for my .44 DE ahead

of time before getting the permits and just wanted to pick up my custom finish DE. Had I not have been waiting

i probably would have pushed it even further. Also I had to get a letter notarized saying i had gave permission

to having a background search done on me including but not limited to any criminal history. This state gets stupider

and stupider every chance it gets....cant wait until I move back to America.

Yes, lets refuse so he holds up or deny's him for failing to answer his questions. Legal or not his only recourse would be lengthy and expensive litigation. So unless you're willing to foot the bill, telling him to refuse is a bad idea.

 

 

Not at all, people politely challenge the illegality of this type of situation all the time, in most cases your waiting a while either way. They need solid grounds to deny you, there not dumb, there not going to deny you based on a document or procedure that is illegal, just to set themselves up for failure. His questions are not part of the procedure, unnecessary, and a violation or privacy. The simple answer to all of his questions are, i have a right to own any gun that is legal in NJ and i'm not a prohibited person, his questions are therefore already answer for him with out even talking to the applicant.

 

When you let them do this to you, you are enabling them... that is the problem, people who let them get away with this gives them the power to do it, nothing more nothing less. If your PD gives you a hard time and the NJSP allow it, contact the NJ2AS, they will gladly help you, probably for free since they have an open cases which is directly dealing with this right now.

People, you need to understand that this questioning does not constitute an added condition or requirement for the issuance of a P2P or FPID. This "interview" is done as part of the investigative process for the background check and the local PD's have quite a bit (too much) latitude in how far they go with this. By law, they cannot disclose to an employer that you are seeking to purchase a firearm, and there have been violations in that realm, but an interview with the applicant falls within bounds.

 

What needs to be done - and the compliancy project is the first step down that road - is to formulate and codify exactly what the background investigation is to consist of and what constitutes investigation versus intrusion or obstructionism.

 

You did right to answer their questions. IMHO, they were not acting outside the current law, just being overzealous. First we need to get those departments that are adding content or form to comply and then we need to redefine the issuing criteria (or preferrably do away with it all together and just rely on NICS like the free world).

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Personally, i view this as harassment, as not one question had any relevance in the application process. What gun are you going to buy? why do you need a gun? all great questions we ask ourselves, but on paper they mean nothing and add nothing to the "background" check. Asking where he shoots and what clubs he's active in again means nothing... My question is why do they waste there time asking such dumb questions, when the reality is they could actually ask useful ones.. My PD asked if i had minors in the house, and how i planned on securing the firearms, nothing formal, they asked relevant questions which seemed appropriate, i have no issues answering such questions.

So after almost 9 months for a simple change of address and 2 permits

 

you waited 8 months too long... that is an insane amount of waiting time..

Just to clarify a couple things mentioned here. A) Litigation does not have to be expensive or time consuming. It doesn't cost anything but a vacation day from work to represent yourself in court. B) The local PD does not need solid grounds to deny you. They will deny if they want and then let you go appeal it in superior court.

 

Now, the judge needs solid grounds to uphold the denial as the burden of proof is on the state to prove why you should be denied. "Applicant was evasive during interview" is not going to be a reason for the judge to uphold a denial.

 

The solution is that there should be a uniform SOP for the entire state to follow.

I just joined this forum because I recently got called in for an interview (later this week). I cannot tell if this is SOP or the guy is just trying to dissuade me from purchasing a firearm. A large portion of me wants to go into the police station and act defensively by refusing their questions, but I can predict that this will only lead to more trouble. I am hoping that if I cooperate they'll speed the process along. If not it looks like I'll have to call my lawyer.

If you don't have any guns waiting to be picked up then couldn't hurt to be defensive. I just wanted my permits

and to move on since I had a Mark XIX custom finish DE waiting for me and i didn't want to risk waiting even more months.

 

I should add the questions they asked my refs were even worse "has he ever lost his temper, does he have any speeding tickets

that you know about, has he ever harmed anyone. do you see any problem with him having these guns and of course my favorite "do you know what he does with the guns"

 

As for my record its spot clean..no criminal record and no speeding tickets..only tickets i have are seat belt and when the cop wants to be a dick about my Air Force dog tags hanging from my mirror, which is obstruction of view i believe.

what questions were asked to you?

Yes, lets refuse so he holds up or deny's him for failing to answer his questions. Legal or not his only recourse would be lengthy and expensive litigation. So unless you're willing to foot the bill, telling him to refuse is a bad idea.

 

Until things change in Trenton (aka never), we have to play cards we're dealt if we want to own guns in the crap hole we call home.

 

I should be grateful my town is on the ball and follows the exact letter of the law concerning firearms. It took me 6 weeks to get my FID, takes me 2 weeks to get handgun permits. They don't bug me for extra paper work, ask dumb questions, recheck references, or any of that BS. Most of the cops there ask me what I'm thinking of buying when I drop off paper work, then proceed to offer suggestions as to what they think I should get

 

screw that, i went to the atourney general, my assemblyman and senator when i was getting pushed around by my dept.. fixed that **** real quick..

The old FID/PPP apps used to have a question on them that asked: for what purpose did you want to buy firearms? The standard answer was for target shooting or hunting.

you waited 8 months too long... that is an insane amount of waiting time..

 

 

For a change of address anything more than a few minutes is an insane amount of time.

People, you need to understand that this questioning does not constitute an added condition or requirement for the issuance of a P2P or FPID. This "interview" is done as part of the investigative process for the background check and the local PD's have quite a bit (too much) latitude in how far they go with this. By law, they cannot disclose to an employer that you are seeking to purchase a firearm, and there have been violations in that realm, but an interview with the applicant falls within bounds.

 

What needs to be done - and the compliancy project is the first step down that road - is to formulate and codify exactly what the background investigation is to consist of and what constitutes investigation versus intrusion or obstructionism.

 

You did right to answer their questions. IMHO, they were not acting outside the current law, just being overzealous. First we need to get those departments that are adding content or form to comply and then we need to redefine the issuing criteria (or preferrably do away with it all together and just rely on NICS like the free world).

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Bob,

 

Can you cite the law for me please? I have a friend who lives in Vineland, and they recently sent his employer a questionnaire and they were concerned because he wants to buy a gun (getting a great deal on a safe queen Gen 1 Glock 17). It would be nice to give him some solid legal ground to stand on if he has to fight a denial.

 

-John

Can you cite the law for me please?

 

 

John:

 

Sorry, not statute, but is in the Administrative Code, as follows:

 

NJAC 13:54-1.15, which states: Any background investigation conducted by the chief of police, the Superintendent or the county prosecutor, of any applicant for a permit, firearms identification card license, or registration, in accordance with the requirements of this chapter, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law such investigation, including the applicant. Any application for a permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any document reflecting the issuance or denial of such permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any permit, firearms identification card, license, certification, certificate, form of register, or registration statement, maintained by any State or municipal governmental agency, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such documentation, including the applicant, except on the request of persons acting in their governmental capacities for purposes of the administration of justice.

 

The field for Employer is not under the "References" section and therefore, no disclosure should be made. The NJSP Application Guide states that the PD is to verify employment - that is all. If your employer furnishes anything other than a verification, they open themselves up for liabilitybased on invasion of privacy. They are your employer, they are not qualified to make any kind of judgement about you other than your competency at your job. Small employer especially may think they have to respond because it is the police asking. In a large corporation with a well structured HR Dept, they wouldn't get past the gate keeper, except for verification of employment - which is as it should be.

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

 

Thanks Bob. That helps. I'll pass it along.

You should have refused to answer the questions

 

You don't need to refuse to answer them to actually avoid answering them.

 

- What kind of gun do you plan on buying? Answer with something barely more specific than the NICS check. Applying for a handgun permit? Answer a handgun. Not a handgun permit, say a rifle or shotgun. It's a non answer. They don't know anything more than they did before they called. They ask for specifics, you say "I'm still making up my mind, I probably won't know for sure until I see what's in stock for what price."

 

-What kind of training do you have? Try something like "I wasn't made aware there was mandatory training, is there some specific requirement?" Now he has to commit to something. If he does actually pull something out of his butt, try simply saying "can you send me information with specifics about that?" Now he has to do work as well as be creative.

 

Bureaucrats, much like criminals, are inherently lazy. You don't have to be able to kick their a**, you just have to look like too much work.

You don't need to refuse to answer them to actually avoid answering them.

 

- What kind of gun do you plan on buying? Answer with something barely more specific than the NICS check. Applying for a handgun permit? Answer a handgun. Not a handgun permit, say a rifle or shotgun. It's a non answer. They don't know anything more than they did before they called. They ask for specifics, you say "I'm still making up my mind, I probably won't know for sure until I see what's in stock for what price."

 

-What kind of training do you have? Try something like "I wasn't made aware there was mandatory training, is there some specific requirement?" Now he has to commit to something. If he does actually pull something out of his butt, try simply saying "can you send me information with specifics about that?" Now he has to do work as well as be creative.

 

Bureaucrats, much like criminals, are inherently lazy. You don't have to be able to kick their a**, you just have to look like too much work.

Bravo! +1

 

The whole idea is to take stupid questions and make the guy asking them see just how stupid they are. When they realize they are wasting there own time, they will realize how much extra work it is for them and stop doing it, or possibly come up with relevant ones that actually mean something.