a friend of mine gave me two 20 round mags (one a colt and one bushmaster) i was wondering if anyone has any idea where to start with modifying them to only hold 15. I run a machine shop so any tool you can imagine is available including CNC mills and lathes i just need to know where to start.

 

 

thanks Vic

a friend of mine gave me two 20 round mags (one a colt and one bushmaster) i was wondering if anyone has any idea where to start with modifying them to only hold 15. I run a machine shop so any tool you can imagine is available including CNC mills and lathes i just need to know where to start.

 

 

 

Vic, I know someone who has done this will be along any moment but have to mention that possession of a mag above 15 rounds in the RP of NJ is not allowed unless you were an FFL, so just sit and wait will you get the right way to make the changes you want to do, while you are hanging out at your machine shop in Pennsylvania. :icon_e_wink:

a friend of mine gave me two 20 round mags (one a colt and one bushmaster) i was wondering if anyone has any idea where to start with modifying them to only hold 15. I run a machine shop so any tool you can imagine is available including CNC mills and lathes i just need to know where to start.

 

 

thanks Vic

 

Don't get caught with them in your possession. I believe it to be a felony offense in NJ. In addition, the mod would have to be done in such a way that it appears to be factory and not jury-rigged. For example, you can't take a 20-round mag, jam some pieces of wood in there or something, so it only holds 15-rounds. That will not be acceptable. Maybe I'm just a pussy when it comes to this stuff, but I don't see the risks outwaying the rewards. Just my opinion, you're thoughts may be different.

Don't get caught with them in your possession. I believe it to be a felony offense in NJ. In addition, the mod would have to be done in such a way that it appears to be factory and not jury-rigged. For example, you can't take a 20-round mag, jam some pieces of wood in there or something, so it only holds 15-rounds. That will not be acceptable. Maybe I'm just a pussy when it comes to this stuff, but I don't see the risks outwaying the rewards. Just my opinion, you're thoughts may be different.

 

Who or where is it said that it has to look factory and not jury-rigged??

Don't get caught with them in your possession. I believe it to be a felony offense in NJ. In addition, the mod would have to be done in such a way that it appears to be factory and not jury-rigged. For example, you can't take a 20-round mag, jam some pieces of wood in there or something, so it only holds 15-rounds. That will not be acceptable. Maybe I'm just a pussy when it comes to this stuff, but I don't see the risks outwaying the rewards. Just my opinion, you're thoughts may be different.

 

FYI, that is up for debate. The NJ AG letter regarding the permanence of a 15 round mod is directed at FFLs and dealers, not regular individuals. I can be mistaken, but this is what I remember from previous discussions on the same topic.

 

-DA

a friend of mine gave me two 20 round mags (one a colt and one bushmaster) i was wondering if anyone has any idea where to start with modifying them to only hold 15. I run a machine shop so any tool you can imagine is available including CNC mills and lathes i just need to know where to start.

 

 

thanks Vic

 

 

Be careful while in possession of those.

 

Secondly, I believe you drill a hole into the front of the mag where ~15rds is, then weld a piece of steel inside the mag to block it.

 

Never attempted this, I am just guessing by looking at other blocked mags.

You could try something like this...

 

http://www.vaportrails.us/html/xdm.html

Run to the nearest free-state border

I think I'm going to come up with a way to block mags and still be able to take them apart to clean them. I bet I could make some money doing that

I think I'm going to come up with a way to block mags and still be able to take them apart to clean them. I bet I could make some money doing that

 

It's not that difficult. The problem with that is the profitability of it given the cost of materials and the time required to do it.

 

I was debating the same thing for Glock 17 mags seeing as there are a few people here (myself included) who own them and would like to get 15 rounds instead of 10. Ultimately, I will just build a few mags myself using a variation of the above method at my sister's place in PA.

Who or where is it said that it has to look factory and not jury-rigged??

 

Again, why risk something so questionable for the little reward? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 Definitions

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is

capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

It's not that difficult. The problem with that is the profitability of it given the cost of materials and the time required to do it.

 

I was debating the same thing for Glock 17 mags seeing as there are a few people here (myself included) who own them and would like to get 15 rounds instead of 10. Ultimately, I will just build a few mags myself using a variation of the above method at my sister's place in PA.

talk to PK90 Paul i bought a G17 from him and he pinned the mags for me i believe the mags were like 30 or 32 each

Again, why risk something so questionable for the little reward? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 Definitions

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is

capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

Again I ask, Who or Where is it said that it has to look factory and not jury-rigged??

 

People need to stop adding things into the law and code that are not there, they are bad enough and many dumb enough in the first place, they don't need more BS added to them..

talk to PK90 Paul i bought a G17 from him and he pinned the mags for me i believe the mags were like 30 or 32 each

 

Last I heard was once they get pinned they can't be dissasembled for cleaning. I'm thinking of finding a way that allows you to block it to 15 but still keep the disassembly function intact.

possibly JB weld (that sh** is serious) a stopper on the bottom of the follower that will only allow it to hold 15

Again I ask, Who or Where is it said that it has to look factory and not jury-rigged??

 

People need to stop adding things into the law and code that are not there, they are bad enough and many dumb enough in the first place, they don't need more BS added to them..

 

OK, so maybe the terms I choose were incorrect. I posted the law, as I understand it, so there should be no further debate as to what's allowed. I will still contend that it doesn't make sense, to me, for someone to take the risk when you may find yourself in front of a jury of "peers that may or may not know firearms and the related practices". Why would you subject yourself and family to that?

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is

capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

Why would you put your future at risk on someone's interpretation on what this really means by modifying a >15-round mag?

 

"temporarily blocked or modified" - you want to defend, in a court of law with jurors, what's "temporarily" or not? To what extent of being able to be deconstructed is considered temporarily?

 

"as by a piece of wood or a pin" - whereas the "as by" part could be interpreted as "for example", meaning something other than a "piece of wood or a pin" would still be considered illegal.

 

I here what you're saying. I really do. Look at how f*cked-up things are in the country. Do you really want to risk your future and your family's future on something so "meaningless" in the scope of the big picture?

OK, so maybe the terms I choose were incorrect. I posted the law, as I understand it, so there should be no further debate as to what's allowed. I will still contend that it doesn't make sense, to me, for someone to take the risk when you may find yourself in front of a jury of "peers that may or may not know firearms and the related practices". Why would you subject yourself and family to that?

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is

capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly

therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

Why would you put your future at risk on someone's interpretation on what this really means by modifying a >15-round mag?

 

"temporarily blocked or modified" - you want to defend, in a court of law with jurors, what's "temporarily" or not? To what extent of being able to be deconstructed is considered temporarily?

 

"as by a piece of wood or a pin" - whereas the "as by" part could be interpreted as "for example", meaning something other than a "piece of wood or a pin" would still be considered illegal.

 

I here what you're saying. I really do. Look at how f*cked-up things are in the country. Do you really want to risk your future and your family's future on something so "meaningless" in the scope of the big picture?

 

 

Dude, relax, calm down, not sure where you are getting I am telling anyone to chance it, heck I was the one who posted the comment to the OP in my first post (Your in a Machine shop in PA, right.. :icon_e_wink:)

 

Now as far as your opening statement about there should be no further debate, ok, as long as you understand to be compliant has absolutely nothing at all to do with the magazine looking factory and/or not jury-rigged..

Dude, relax, calm down, not sure where you are getting I am telling anyone to chance it, heck I was the one who posted the comment to the OP in my first post (Your in a Machine shop in PA, right.. :icon_e_wink:)

 

Now as far as your opening statement about there should be no further debate, ok, as long as you understand to be compliant has absolutely nothing at all to do with the magazine looking factory and/or not jury-rigged..

 

Correct. That's why I stated that I choose incorrect terms. As the law reads, it has nothing to do with appearance and looks of the finished product.

" An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

 

Just FYI, your quote was pulled from the NJAC and not the statutes. IIRC, the clause applies to dealers.

Just FYI, your quote was pulled from the NJAC and not the statutes. IIRC, the clause applies to dealers.

 

Oh Bob, now you went and done it,,, I was actually waiting for Vlad to come around and make that post you just made. I think he has that standard response saved so it's just a quick Copy and Paste.

possibly JB weld (that sh** is serious) a stopper on the bottom of the follower that will only allow it to hold 15

 

That may not be "permanent" because one could easily swap out an unmodified follower.

 

A disassemble-able, pinned magazine may require the follower to come out the top somehow. Or be split in half like the Black Dog magazines. But that's just off the top of my head.

 

EDIT...or maybe after the spring was removed the follower could tip sideways and get past the limiter...but something like that is exactly what anti-tip followers are supposed to stop...

That may not be "permanent" because one could easily swap out an unmodified follower.

 

A disassemble-able, pinned magazine may require the follower to come out the top somehow. Or be split in half like the Black Dog magazines. But that's just off the top of my head.

 

EDIT...or maybe after the spring was removed the follower could tip sideways and get past the limiter...but something like that is exactly what anti-tip followers are supposed to stop...

 

 

Just wondering, with some permanent blocking system like 2 pieces of metal on the 2 walls inside the mag that would not allow the follower to go any further than allow 15 rounds, what difference would it make if the mag could be taken apart and or the follower removed.

 

I feel that as long as the Mag body has been modified that regardless of what you do you can not use more than 15 rounds of ammo. If it was the other components included in this than wouldn't a mag spring for a magazine that holds more than 15 rounds be an issue??

 

Overall, it may be that a FFL may not be able to do it this way, but me out of state I modify the Mag in this way, I should be fine being to unmodify the mag you would wind up destroying it.

Just wondering, with some permanent blocking system like 2 pieces of metal on the 2 walls inside the mag that would not allow the follower to go any further than allow 15 rounds, what difference would it make if the mag could be taken apart and or the follower removed.

 

 

That was my interpretation, and that's how I modified those Black Dog mags when I used to have some. You can disassemble them and clean them but when they're back together there's no way to go over 15.

 

With 1-piece steel magazines that's not a choice though.

:thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

there are two sets of rules in NJ..

 

1) those that apply to us the gun OWNERS

and

2) those that apply to gun DEALERS...

 

you a gun owner can not own a magazine that can hold more than 15 rounds PERIOD.. id doesn't matter if you have a sock stuffed in the magazine.. if the magazine can NOT hold more than 15 rounds.. it is legal.. period..

 

dealers on the other hand have to abide by administrative code.. which states the magazine must be PERMANENTLY modified to only accept 15 rounds.. what does that mean? it simply means if you try to modify it to hold more than 15 rounds (take it apart for example) it will destroy the magazine and make it useless...

 

that is the law.. the most common way to make a mag hold 15 rounds or less on the gun owner side is a simple pin.. on the dealer side it is far more complicated and normally involves welding, epoxy, etc..

FYI, my AR-15 magazines can be disassembled using a 1/8" drill bit for cleaning purposes, then reassembled with new rivets. There is no chance of putting a standard floorplate back on to allow the full capacity of 20 rounds, as the floorplate retaining tabs are cut off.

Just FYI, your quote was pulled from the NJAC and not the statutes. IIRC, the clause applies to dealers.

 

I don't understand. Please help me understand. I want to always be 100% correct on the facts and the resources in which I obtain them from. Thankks.

:thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

there are two sets of rules in NJ..

 

1) those that apply to us the gun OWNERS

and

2) those that apply to gun DEALERS...

 

you a gun owner can not own a magazine that can hold more than 15 rounds PERIOD.. id doesn't matter if you have a sock stuffed in the magazine.. if the magazine can NOT hold more than 15 rounds.. it is legal.. period..

 

dealers on the other hand have to abide by administrative code.. which states the magazine must be PERMANENTLY modified to only accept 15 rounds.. what does that mean? it simply means if you try to modify it to hold more than 15 rounds (take it apart for example) it will destroy the magazine and make it useless...

 

that is the law.. the most common way to make a mag hold 15 rounds or less on the gun owner side is a simple pin.. on the dealer side it is far more complicated and normally involves welding, epoxy, etc..

 

Agreed. Though, it's better to be safe than sorry and make an effort to show that your tried to make it permanent. If I could just use socks though... lol

:thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

there are two sets of rules in NJ..

 

1) those that apply to us the gun OWNERS

and

2) those that apply to gun DEALERS...

 

you a gun owner can not own a magazine that can hold more than 15 rounds PERIOD.. id doesn't matter if you have a sock stuffed in the magazine.. if the magazine can NOT hold more than 15 rounds.. it is legal.. period..

 

dealers on the other hand have to abide by administrative code.. which states the magazine must be PERMANENTLY modified to only accept 15 rounds.. what does that mean? it simply means if you try to modify it to hold more than 15 rounds (take it apart for example) it will destroy the magazine and make it useless...

 

that is the law.. the most common way to make a mag hold 15 rounds or less on the gun owner side is a simple pin.. on the dealer side it is far more complicated and normally involves welding, epoxy, etc..

 

 

Thanks. That helps a bunch. I didn't realize there were multiple sets of rules. Doesn't make sense, but I guess that's the way it is. So, where I first started on this board (no very long ago), I asked about all the documents I'd need to understand all the NJ laws concerning fireams. I was pointed to several documents. Should I assume that one of them happened to be for Dealers only or do they mix the rules for Dealers in with the general population document too?

Thanks. That helps a bunch. I didn't realize there were multiple sets of rules. Doesn't make sense, but I guess that's the way it is. So, where I first started on this board (no very long ago), I asked about all the documents I'd need to understand all the NJ laws concerning fireams. I was pointed to several documents. Should I assume that one of them happened to be for Dealers only or do they mix the rules for Dealers in with the general population document too?

 

 

to be honest it is confusing.. what you should concern yourself with is the following IMO..

 

NJ definitions as they pertain to firearms (pistol grips, assault weapons, etc..)

 

criminal code 2c:39 (I think) which is the stuff pertaining to firearms..

 

NJ AG letter clarifying was "substantially identical" means

 

922 compliance if you modify any imported firearms..

 

 

 

administrative code governs dealers and is therefore of little to no concern to you..

 

 

I know it is confusing.. and it takes a while.. but you will get it..

FYI, my AR-15 magazines can be disassembled using a 1/8" drill bit for cleaning purposes, then reassembled with new rivets. There is no chance of putting a standard floorplate back on to allow the full capacity of 20 rounds, as the floorplate retaining tabs are cut off.

 

 

I was just saying..

 

and for what it's worth if I owned an AR in NJ I would just pick up your mags.. they looked great.. and definitely satisfy the law either way..