I'm having some trouble with my 92A1. I pretty consistently shoot slightly right and a little low. The image is of my targets with 50 rounds per target (bottom right is 40 with 10 in the center of the sheet, I was aiming for between the two symbols). The target was at about 7 yards and were all shooting anywhere from a relatively slow pace to a moderate pace (1 shot per 1-2 seconds). I'm having trouble determining whether it's my sights that are slightly off or I'm doing something wrong. I'm also having trouble figuring out where to put my right thumb (keep in mind I'm lefty, so that's offhand thumb to most of you) due to the exposed trigger bar on the gun, so I'm thinking because I'm not balancing my grip with my right thumb I'm pushing right on my shots, but I'm not entirely sure. I figured I'd get some input from people before I drop $60 on an adjustable sight.

 

This is a potential candidate for my USPSA gun when I start in the spring, so I'm trying to figure out if I can fix my problem (or the gun's) before I rule it out. My other option is a Glock 22 .40 that has a tendency to shift in my grip after each shot, so I need to get that sorted out too.

 

Do you have this problem with any other guns? Generally speaking, right handed shooters with a "not so good" trigger pull (i.e. jerking trigger) will put rounds low left. Left handed shooters tend to do the opposite - low right.

 

While not written in stone, the chart below will give you an idea of some of the causes of off center shots:

Im not a southpaw, so cant help you there. but this might help:

 

caine beat me to it !

I've seen that chart before and have thought about it, so I tried to put conscious effort into proper trigger control and still get the same thing. I've never noticed having the same aim error with my Glock, but I also haven't put enough rounds through it in one trip lately to know for sure. That is on my to-do list though. The other part of my issue though is where to put my thumb, which I don't have a problem with on my glock because I can rest it on the frame, which is what gave me the idea that maybe that's part of the problem.

Regarding your offhand thumb... I had to go look at my Beretta to try and figure out why the trigger bar location was problematic, and I can't figure it out Do you shoot with your thumbs "wrapped" or with a thumbs forward grip? I did some testing on mine, and with thumbs wrapped, the offhand thumb sits at the top forward edge of the grip. With thumbs forward the tip of off hand thumb was close to the take down lever along the frame and wasn't interfering with the trigger bar.

 

When my wife gets home I'll try to take some pictures of what I'm talking about

I'm not sure what a "wrapped" thumbs grip is, but my thumbs point forward. My offhand thumb winds up resting right on the trigger bar or just on the bottom edge of it, and then it rubs on my thumb. Hopefully the pic below helps (I had to wait for my wife to get home as well).

 

Ok, let's forget the "wrapped thumbs" for now since it doesn't apply to your grip.

 

The one difference I'm noticing between my grip and yours is that my support hand is a little further forward and higher up on the grip because my wrist is a bit more locked out:

 

The end result is a little gap exactly where the trigger bar is:

 

So, just a couple minor tweaks to your support hand should allow you to clear the trigger bar.

 

HTH

your anticipating recoil and tightening your grip or pulling back with support hand to offset recoil. I am a lefty and I do it all the time when I dont shoot for some time, like recently.

Caine: Thanks for the input, I'll definitely have to look into that. It looks then like your support hand is wrapped pretty far around the trigger guard, almost to where your second knuckle is on the trigger guard. Or do you not wrap your fingers all the way around and leave a gap between your support fingers and dominant knuckles (if that makes sense). I'll have to grab the gun tomorrow and play around with my grip, might take some getting used to, but if it works it's worth it.

 

axeman: I do notice that I have a little bit of a recoil flinch sometimes. Two of my magazines don't like the slide back so I never realize I'm out and still pull the trigger. The weird part is during dry firing there's no flinch, but when I'm at the range I flinch. I would've thought if that were the cause I'd be shooting much lower, but maybe not. I'm also not entirely sure how to have no flinch but still control the recoil in follow through. It seems like if you didn't anticipate it even the slightest, you wouldn't have enough time to then control the gun after firing and it would just go flying.

Have a firm grip at all times and let the trigger break surprise you. Dry fire flinching doesn't occur because you are not actually expecting the recoil. Load up a few mags with a snap cap or two mixed in randomly next time you go to the range. I have the same problem and have found that I tighten and lock my wrist a bit when I overthink the shot too much and end up with an errant round low and to the right. If I increase the tempo and fire as soon as my sights are on target it gives me less time to overthink and generally more lead where I want it.

Have a firm grip at all times and let the trigger break surprise you. Dry fire flinching doesn't occur because you are not actually expecting the recoil. Load up a few mags with a snap cap or two mixed in randomly next time you go to the range. I have the same problem and have found that I tighten and lock my wrist a bit when I overthink the shot too much and end up with an errant round low and to the right. If I increase the tempo and fire as soon as my sights are on target it gives me less time to overthink and generally more lead where I want it.

 

That would explain why I can fire quickly just about as accurately as I can slowly. I think what I really need is more trigger time. If only I could retire early (at 28), I'd have plenty of time to hit the range.

you may also want to re-adjust your trigger finger placement. If i remember correctly new shooters have a tendency to shoot low left, southpaw=low right. It's pretty easy to jerk the sights of POI at the trigger break if your pull isn't nice and strait. I shoot low left alot and i can tell using snap caps its because of my trigger pull, i've just been practicing dry fire and finding the sweet spot on the trigger. I usually keep a moderate grip to keep myself from jerking the gun, but my grips are also checkered which gives more grip with less tension. That's one small reason i picked the m9a1 over the 92a1.

Caine: Thanks for the input, I'll definitely have to look into that. It looks then like your support hand is wrapped pretty far around the trigger guard, almost to where your second knuckle is on the trigger guard. Or do you not wrap your fingers all the way around and leave a gap between your support fingers and dominant knuckles (if that makes sense). I'll have to grab the gun tomorrow and play around with my grip, might take some getting used to, but if it works it's worth it.

Not sure how to explain it exactly, but I'll try. The underside of the trigger guard ends up between the knuckle and the first joint of my index finger if the off hand. The only gap in my grip is near where the palms of my hands meet at the back of the grip. Some people advocate a grip where the palms of your hands are basically touching, but I try to get up as high on the grip as I can, which ends up leaving a little bit of a gap between where the palms would meet if my grip was a little lower.

 

You know what, a video can show what I'm trying to explain a lot better. My grip is somewhere between the last two grips he desribes. Just reverse it since your left handed:

 

So, in a nutshell, just rotate your wrist a little more forward which should get your support hand higher up on the gun and should allow your thumb to clear the trigger bar.

just work on firing with a steady grip. I notice I shoot horrible at targets at times when I have not shot in a long time. Shoot more, get used to it, that gun soaks up recoil so just run with it. I also notice that if I shoot a game I dont flinch, thinking to much about making the correct shots rather then not flinching.

jackdawack: I swapped out my grips for the rubber Hogue grips because the gun would slip out of my hand a bit with the original ones. I don't have that problem anymore with the rubber grips.

 

Caine: I get it now, I'll have to give that a try. Without a gun nearby, it seems like with that grip you would have your support elbow locked out and your strong elbow bent a little, correct?

 

Thanks again for all the help. Hopefully this will get me back on track.

Caine: I get it now, I'll have to give that a try. Without a gun nearby, it seems like with that grip you would have your support elbow locked out and your strong elbow bent a little, correct?

Correct. It's almost like a reverse Weaver but not as pronounced with regards to the bend.

 

I wouldn't get too caught up in trying to get any of this stuff perfect right now. You'll find that over time you end up trying lots of minor little tweaks trying to find what works best for you. And Axeman gave the best advice - shoot more, think less The minute I start to over-think my shots trying to get everything just right before breaking the shot is inevitably when I'll start yanking shots. And sadly, I over-think quite a bit

That's pretty much why I'm considering putting on adjustable sights so I can make the gun shoot where I'm aiming since I already know I'm consistent. If it's easier for me to stick with my current consistent method and just move the POI, it's probably better than trying to erase my current method and ingrain a new one. Especially since I'm not terribly far off the mark as it is.

IMHO, that's not the way to go. Because, like you said, you're not terribly off the mark, if you spend a bit more time practicing, you can probably get dialed in on your own without having to drop $60-$100 on a bandaid fix. You'll just end up having the same problem with the next gun you get. As some people on here are fond of saying, "it's the Indian, not the arrow"

 

Either way, good luck

Agreed. Before I do anything I plan to put a ton of trigger time in with my Glock to see if I have the same problem with that gun. If I don't, then it's probably a bad relationship between me and the 92.