A friend of mine wrote this article a few years ago, but it is more than relevant today:

 

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/ccw/cops_and_guns.htm

 

He no longer hosts the site referenced at this link, btw.

 

Scott

Would be nice to have more who think like this, there probably are many, maybe not the same ratio as it is in other parts of the country, but we do have a few current and retired LEO's here on the forum that understand it.

Problem is: it's the CLEOs, judges, and politicians which decide this crap, not the rank and file officer.

Problem is: it's the CLEOs, judges, and politicians which decide this crap, not the rank and file officer.

 

You do have a point, at least in our area of the country.

A friend of mine wrote this article a few years ago, but it is more than relevant today:

 

http://www.sightm191...ps_and_guns.htm

 

He no longer hosts the site referenced at this link, btw.

 

Scott

You indicated that this was written "a few years ago",how many?

My reason for asking is that it is the opposite of some articles I've read recently documenting that police forces have increasingly become in fact more militarized.Technically and arms savvy and better educated in their use and geared toward conspiracy and terrorism as opposed to interacting with the public on the whole, and have for some time,in fact countering your friend's opinion.

The articles,most recently one in the NY Times, quoted a 1500% increase in SWAT tactics roughly in the past 20 years, and mentioned that Ray Kelly and the NYC police department has had and used Tanks and militarized tactics for decades mainly because of the so called war on drugs and 9/11. They don't reflect on LEO's opinion on private gun ownership as your friend's article do but it does strike me as odd if the article was written recently.

@Duppie: I've reached out to Bruce to find out the date of that article. I'll post his response when received.

 

Keep in mind that it was written from his perspective as a street cop, not a member of a specialized squad. While I cannot speak for him I can definitely agree with his opinion, as--for example--I've heard some very revealing anti-gun ownership dialogue on the part of "younger" cops while waiting for paperwork to be processed at my local P.D. A small sample, arguably, but I think one that is indicative of a mindset that is definitely out there today.

 

As for Ray Kelly's tanks: well, I worked in midtown-Manhattan for a bunch of years, both pre- and post-9/11, and I've never seen them in use;-) Plus, the NY Times has a pretty well-documented problem with getting the facts to line up with their writing, so take their stats with a grain of salt. I do agree that they have created a para-military portion of the NYPD to deal with the threat of terrorism, but I would bet there are still far more regular patrol/beat officers on the job than those in SWAT-style or ESU units. But keep in mind the thesis of the original article: that "today's" cops are not big fans of guns in the hands of anyone but themselves.

@Duppie: I've reached out to Bruce to find out the date of that article. I'll post his response when received.

 

Keep in mind that it was written from his perspective as a street cop, not a member of a specialized squad. While I cannot speak for him I can definitely agree with his opinion, as--for example--I've heard some very revealing anti-gun ownership dialogue on the part of "younger" cops while waiting for paperwork to be processed at my local P.D. A small sample, arguably, but I think one that is indicative of a mindset that is definitely out there today.

 

As for Ray Kelly's tanks: well, I worked in midtown-Manhattan for a bunch of years, both pre- and post-9/11, and I've never seen them in use;-) Plus, the NY Times has a pretty well-documented problem with getting the facts to line up with their writing, so take their stats with a grain of salt. I do agree that they have created a para-military portion of the NYPD to deal with the threat of terrorism, but I would bet there are still far more regular patrol/beat officers on the job than those in SWAT-style or ESU units. But keep in mind the thesis of the original article: that "today's" cops are not big fans of guns in the hands of anyone but themselves.

I too attended college,lived and worked in Manhattan and have, seen NYPD's tank/tanks and SWAT team in action twice,once in the west village in the process of breaking up a squatter's protest and the second right in my old Washington Heights neighborhood in the raid of a drug gang. In a previous career, I was also exposed to quite a few NYPD officers and all were dedicated, hard working and carried a firearm at all times and by no means held that their fellow citizens were incapable of fending for them selves. You and he should know just how resilient the average New Yorker actually is.

I venture that your friend's rather skewed opinion, regardless of the validity of articles by the Times or reports on Fox et al, all of which I take with more than a average grain, is based on the old guard of retiring LEOs inevitably considering the incoming,and in most cases, better trained and educated ranks ,not as worthy as them selves. The facts,at least in my opinion does not support his thesis. Sorry.

I have to really disagree with Duppie. I have gotten to know a lot of cops from hanging with cousins that are on the job. Most of them are in fact just as the article states. They have an elitest attitude. I noticed this a lot after 9/11. I went to a number of fundrasing parties for 9/11 familes and it was obvious the way they are. As far as them not carrying, that was not the case. They all carried all the time, even before the law was passed for them to carry in all states. I remember going to NJ and they all carried ilegally back then. They all had the if it not's my issue, somebody can call the cops outlook.

 

The difference is perspective imo. Cops years ago were proud of being a cop and it was a way of life. Today, it's just a job to most.

 

I am sure as of late the swat tactics etc.. have ramped up but that doesn't make these cops attitude change. You see what you see, you have to get to know some of them and then you will see the way they perceive you. I would bet that most of the NYPD is not pro gun. They see it as a risk for them.

I have to really disagree with Duppie. I have gotten to know a lot of cops from hanging with cousins that are on the job. Most of them are in fact just as the article states. They have an elitest attitude. I noticed this a lot after 9/11. I went to a number of fundrasing parties for 9/11 familes and it was obvious the way they are. As far as them not carrying, that was not the case. They all carried all the time, even before the law was passed for them to carry in all states. I remember going to NJ and they all carried ilegally back then. They all had the if it not's my issue, somebody can call the cops outlook.

 

The difference is perspective imo. Cops years ago were proud of being a cop and it was a way of life. Today, it's just a job to most.

 

I am sure as of late the swat tactics etc.. have ramped up but that doesn't make these cops attitude change. You see what you see, you have to get to know some of them and then you will see the way they perceive you. I would bet that most of the NYPD is not pro gun. They see it as a risk for them.

Perhaps you misunderstood my point,The very fact that the philosophy of policing for the people has shifted to a more Militaristic stance means that they are taught that they ARE indeed an elite force. I have no disagreement with that.I also have no disagreement with the article author's opinion that most LEOs consider a legally armed but largely untrained public to be at the very least ,a paperwork nightmare and at most ,a potential threat to career and life. My issue is with the author's use and example of his years with the NYPD as proof positive that cops today everywhere are 1:Untrained.2:Unarmed. 3:Uncaring.4:Undisciplined.5:Uninvolved.... Lots of un's with no corroborating evidence other than his own silted view and to me, odd if written recently.

Thank you for posting and I think I did miss your point. I will agree with you that all those "uns" are not true. I know not one cop that doesn't carry his/ her gun. Untrained, some don't care to. I do know that they couldn't be bothered getting involved if it doesn't pertain to them. That is also most NY'ers though.

Thank you for posting and I think I did miss your point. I will agree with you that all those "uns" are not true. I know not one cop that doesn't carry his/ her gun. Untrained, some don't care to. I do know that they couldn't be bothered getting involved if it doesn't pertain to them. That is also most NY'ers though.

I apologize if my posts was vague as to the point I was attempting to get across. Again ,I largely agree to the gist of the article just not to the examples,evidence,anecdotes and in turn, it's relevance.

I had a Cape May County Sherriff's Deputy tell me that civilian CCW permits are a novelty, and that the sense of excitement of carrying a gun would fade...

 

However, I do know a few officers that are all for people carrying. That deputy kind of irked me a bit.

the articcle was nice! thank you for posting.

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