So to transport a firearm (home to range), I need to keep it in a locked case with the ammunition in a separate container (like my range bag). What about the magazines? Do they go with the gun or in my range bag? I remember Nappen saying something about magazines being considered part of the gun.

Unloaded in a fastened case, does not need to be locked. Ammo does not need to be carried in any specific manner, it can be in the same bag as the gun right next to it. Mags can go in the same bag as the gun, they can even be loaded. The only specific rules on ammo are hollow point bullets. They are transported under the same exemptions as transporting a HG, i.e. to and from store, range, kept in home, etc.

 

At the NJ2AS meeting Nappen was at, he joked that you can even have a loaded mag right next to the chamber of the gun and it would be legal under NJ law. The gun just cannot be loaded that is.

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29389-nj-law-summary-read-first-nj-gun-law-faqs/

 

 

TRANSPORTATION

 

 

How To Transport

• Unloaded: The firearm must be unloaded, as in there must be no ammunition in the gun. NJ defines the word firearm meaning the actual gun, under current law transportation of a loaded magazine would not be considered a loaded gun
  
• Cased/Wrapped: If the vehicle has a defined trunk separate from the passenger compartment, the firearms are to put in the trunk. If no trunk is present (as in a SUV) the firearm must be in a fastened case/wrapped/etc.
  
• Destination: It is important to recognize that NJ dictates that your course of travel while transporting firearms should be as direct as is reasonably possible.
  

g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b.,

subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried

unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package,

or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the

course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under

the circumstances.

 

the mag doesnt need to be empty...

So I'm safe keeping the mags in my unlocked range bag? (I transport the HG and rifle in separate, locked cases) Thanks guys, I just want to make sure I avoid any problems.

So I'm safe keeping the mags in my unlocked range bag? (I transport the HG and rifle in separate, locked cases) Thanks guys, I just want to make sure I avoid any problems.

 

there is no more consideration than that which is clearly stated.. gun has to be unloaded.. that is all.. the rest is moot..

 

http://njgunforums.c...j-gun-law-faqs/

 

 

TRANSPORTATION

 

 

How To Transport

• Unloaded: The firearm must be unloaded, as in there must be no ammunition in the gun. NJ defines the word firearm meaning the actual gun, under current law transportation of a loaded magazine would not be considered a loaded gun
  
• Cased/Wrapped: If the vehicle has a defined trunk separate from the passenger compartment, the firearms are to put in the trunk. If no trunk is present (as in a SUV) the firearm must be in a fastened case/wrapped/etc.
  
• Destination: It is important to recognize that NJ dictates that your course of travel while transporting firearms should be as direct as is reasonably possible.
  

g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b.,

subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried

unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package,

or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the

course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under

the circumstances.

 

 

save urself the headache & keep the mags empty. i dont wanna be on the receiving area of "grey" with NJs finest.

save urself the headache & keep the mags empty. i dont wanna be on the receiving area of "grey" with NJs finest.

 

please point out the grey area?

 

NJ law mentions nothing about loaded magazines being considered a loaded gun ANYWHERE..

you know I have complete and total respect for you.. but I grossly disagree with your advice..

I actually had one of the guys at brick armory scold me a few years ago b.c i walk out of the range with a loaded mag and he said, "you werent planning on leaving with that like that were you?!". I was sort of dumbfounded, and at the time I was fairly new to the hobby so i just said no. (in reality I didnt plan on it anyway, i just wasnt ready to leave)

I actually had one of the guys at brick armory scold me a few years ago b.c i walk out of the range with a loaded mag and he said, "you werent planning on leaving with that like that were you?!". I was sort of dumbfounded, and at the time I was fairly new to the hobby so i just said no. (in reality I didnt plan on it anyway, i just wasnt ready to leave)

 

I have politely challenged instructors in some of the classes I have taken.... we are not all right all the time.. and distributing opinion as fact is dangerous for the community..

please point out the grey area?

 

I thought they can consider the magazine as part of the firearm.

Im gonna check NJ Gun Law Guide by Evan Nappen & Rich Gilbert.

(cant find anything)

I thought they can consider the magazine as part of the firearm.

Im gonna check NJ Gun Law Guide by Evan Nappen & Rich Gilbert.

 

NJ defines the word firearm..

 

f. "Firearm" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or

any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

 

and NJ law dictates that the "firearm" must be in an unloaded condition while transporting...

since NJ law clearly defines what the "firearm" is.. and that it is the actual device that is responsible for firing the projectile.. feel free to consult.. but the law is about as clear as clear can be on the matter..

 

firearm must be unloaded.. and a magazine.. is not a firearm...

There is a podcast on Gun for Hire radio were they were talking about this i think they had Evan Nappen and i do believe he said all that is required by law is the gun be in a locked case "unloaded " is the key, or have a cable lock or trigger lock, and the ammo did not have to be locked up and it was o kto be in a magazine. I will see if i can find which podcast it is i just listened to it this weekend.

What's with all the "locked case" talk. Nothing in the statutes demands that. It must be in a "closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package". There is no talk of locking, or what type of case, as in metal, plastic, or fabric etc. For instance, a zipper is a form of fastener.

There is a podcast on Gun for Hire radio were they were talking about this i think they had Evan Nappen and i do believe he said all that is required by law is the gun be in a locked case "unloaded " is the key, or have a cable lock or trigger lock, and the ammo did not have to be locked up and it was o kto be in a magazine. I will see if i can find which podcast it is i just listened to it this weekend.

 

another great example of misinformation... gotta love it..

follow the law and leave it at that.. IMO..

 

 

as Dan points out..

 

What's with all the "locked case" talk. Nothing in the statutes demands that. It must be in a "closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package". There is no talk of locking, or what type of case, as in metal, plastic, or fabric etc. For instance, a zipper is a form of fastener.

 

+1 to you!

 

this is EXACTLY why I posted up all that law stuff LITERALLY how it is written.. so people could read the actual LAW.. and not some tainted interpretation of said law..

I don't really care if it's legal to drive with loaded mags, I am still not driving with them.

I don't really care if it's legal to drive with loaded mags, I am still not driving with them.

 

you are completely entitled to transport ammo however you feel like..

 

but just curious... why..

I never lock my gun. I throw it in my gun case. Case goes in backpack with eyes and ears. If I have ammo it goes in there as well. The problem with NJ's laws is that too much is left up for interpretation. Something needs to change. I sometimes feel like we're being criminalized just because we're gun owners.

I never lock my gun. I throw it in my gun case. Case goes in backpack with eyes and ears. If I have ammo it goes in there as well. The problem with NJ's laws is that too much is left up for interpretation. Something needs to change. I sometimes feel like we're being criminalized just because we're gun owners.

 

sometimes I feel that law abiding gun owners allow unjust guilt to drive them to do things beyond that which the law demands..

no reason to worry about laws that are not there....

sometimes I feel that law abiding gun owners allow unjust guilt to drive them to do things beyond that which the law demands..

no reason to worry about laws that are not there....

 

The truth is I always heard that having loaded mags was illegal so I never had them loaded...that's where my confusion was

i remember my first time to the range at bullet hole, I was also scolded for having loaded mags, never did it again since, not because I'm paranoid but I just rather be safe than sorry.... idk.... but I feel with sites like this and pod casts like gun for hire, the information is getting out maybe we don't need to be so dam extra careful in this state.

Thanks for clearing it up. Maybe I was being too paranoid. But, there's the (vaguely) written law and then there's what the LEO is feeling that day. If he wants to make an issue out of something, then you're going jail.

Thanks for clearing it up. Maybe I was being too paranoid. But, there's the (vaguely) written law and then there's what the LEO is feeling that day. If he wants to make an issue out of something, then you're going jail.

 

fearing prosecution based on a non existent law will drive you nuts?.. to fear that an officer might be confused about the law.... and cause you grief.. where does it end? alert the local police department you are legally transporting your firearms that day? remove the firing pin? take all the barrels off? I understand where you are coming from.. just "being on the safe side" but to what end? how are you any "more safe" by complying with nonexistent laws?

 

again.. transport how you want (within the confines of the law AND beyond if you like)... but don't do it because you think it affords you some kind of "cushion".. if it isn't a law.. it isn't a law...

 

and if you are following the law.. to hell with them.. you are within your rights!

i remember my first time to the range at bullet hole, I was also scolded for having loaded mags, never did it again since, not because I'm paranoid but I just rather be safe than sorry.... idk.... but I feel with sites like this and pod casts like gun for hire, the information is getting out maybe we don't need to be so dam extra careful in this state.

 

Not to put words in GFH's mouth but I recall that he was a bit more conservative about this than Vlad.

Not to put words in GFH's mouth but I recall that he was a bit more conservative about this than Vlad.

GFH is a bit more conservative because they're teaching students based on evan's book. They probably tread on the conservative/safe side because if one of their students gets in trouble, they don't want a lawsuit. There won't be a case where the student says "well, this is what GFH teaches."

Unloaded in a fastened case, does not need to be locked. Ammo does not need to be carried in any specific manner, it can be in the same bag as the gun right next to it. Mags can go in the same bag as the gun, they can even be loaded. The only specific rules on ammo are hollow point bullets. They are transported under the same exemptions as transporting a HG, i.e. to and from store, range, kept in home, etc.

 

At the NJ2AS meeting Nappen was at, he joked that you can even have a loaded mag right next to the chamber of the gun and it would be legal under NJ law. The gun just cannot be loaded that is.

 

NO, he said ammo could be in the same bag, next to the chamber, not a loaded mag. He specifically stated that he did not recommend you transporting loaded mags because they COULD be construed as a part of the gun, and therefore construed as being "loaded". I believe he was speaking from personal experience in a case he handled.

 

I agree it's absurd that anyone could read NJ statutes and conclude that a loaded mag is the same as a a loaded gun, but this is NJ, and if a judge can rule that a "Guide Book" should not be released to the public when he knows full well that it must be released, anything is possible. I am not going to take that chance under this environment.

NO, he said ammo could be in the same bag, next to the chamber, not a loaded mag. He specifically stated that he did not recommend you transporting loaded mags because they COULD be construed as a part of the gun, and therefore construed as being "loaded". I believe he was speaking from personal experience in a case he handled.

 

I agree it's absurd that anyone could read NJ statutes and conclude that a loaded mag is the same as a a loaded gun, but this is NJ, and if a judge can rule that a "Guide Book" should not be released to the public when he knows full well that it must be released, anything is possible. I am not going to take that chance under this environment.

 

and that is the problem.. people give their special "spin" on the law..

 

did one cop in one town in one place mistakenly assume a loaded magazine is a loaded gun? maybe? did it net a million dollar criminal defense that took up 10 years of that individuals life? NO I think not..

 

all that nonsense does is create tension and confusion.. you can't properly instruct people by telling them to do things that are not required.. you can offer advice.. but that advice better be AGGRESSIVELY labeled as advice.. and NOT an explanation of law..

How do you anti-loaded magazine people expect to be charged with a crime for a law that doesn't exist, not to mention isn't even mentioned in the Administrative Code?

How do you anti-loaded magazine people expect to be charged with a crime for a law that doesn't exist, not to mention isn't even mentioned in the Administrative Code?

 

It is the possible interpretation that loaded mag + unloaded gun in same case or in close proximity = loaded gun

just think, SHTF & I got a loaded mag next to my firearm!

=music to my ears!

 

now, if I can get to my trunk FASTER!

Gotta start practicing opening door, running around truck, popping open tailgate & accessing a gymbag!

repeat.