I was reading this thread http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/30351-negative-experience-with-marketplace-transactionmember/page__fromsearch__1 where someone said that he “wanted to send to money to him using Paypal being this is the safest way to do a transaction". This really surprised me for two reasons.

 

First is that I have seen countless people scammed with Paypal (such as the empty box trick), so that I don't consider Paypal safe at all.

 

However, more importantly as this is a gun board, is that Paypal is ANTI GUN. This seemed to be common knowledge a few years ago on all of the gun boards, but in recent times it seems to have been forgotten. Maybe some of you newer guys don't know but Paypal used to (and may still, but I no longer use them so I have not kept up) lock accounts for buying or selling anything firearm related. In fact what the gentleman quoted above wanted to do is expressly prohibited by Paypal’s own posted rules (see #2 near the end): https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/AcceptableUse_full

 

I would urge everyone to consider this when choosing to use/not use Paypal. I can not understand why any gun owner would choose to financially support a business who is anti-gun. I would also hope that any paypal users understand that Paypal may lock your account for buying/selling anything firearm related, and you will have a hell of a time getting a refund.

Hmmm.... I had no idea, thanks for posting this. I almost never use my paypal account so I won't mind getting rid of it. Know of any alternatives that aren't anti-gun?

Thier was an alternative gun pal but it went down the tubes, so pay pal is it, never had any problems and works very good..

I dropped paypal because of their anti-gun policies. I also dumped ebay for the same reasons. However, I still shop at Target and Lowes. :unknw:

Unfortunately, still use paypal.... Gpal turned out to be a scam. I use for my business a intuit for cc processing, but working to link it to the forum. logistically, paypal works the best. and if folks send cash as gift, no charges.

(i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (j) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

 

"certain"... I have used paypal a million times over.. and I have yet to have a single problem.. in fact one item was damaged in transport and they actually went above and beyond to help me resolve the issue..

 

and the "empty box" scam? if there is some online payment system that can guarantee I will not be scammed in any way.. PLEASE let me know about it.. I am more than interested..

Unfortunately, still use paypal.... Gpal turned out to be a scam. I use for my business a intuit for cc processing, but working to link it to the forum. logistically, paypal works the best. and if folks send cash as gift, no charges.

 

Unfortunately, when the buyer with a room temperature IQ, lists a gun part in the comment section Paypal may lock your account, and you will have a hell of a time getting any of your $ released.

 

This is what heppened to me when I sold a Troy rear sight several years ago, and the buyer listed it in the comment section. I didn't get my $ back until I sent a letter under my esq letterhead.

I avoid paypal when I can. Besides the "empty box" scam, you can also be scammed as a seller by unscrupulous buyers. Here's one scenario:

 

You (seller) sell an item to a buyer. Buyer insists on paying by paypal, but picks up item in person/F2F. Buyer receives item, then files a paypal claim claiming non-receipt of goods. Paypal comes to you, the seller, and asks for proof of shipping/delivery of item. "But I gave it to them in person" doesn't cut it. Buyer's claim is honored by paypal and they yank funds back from your paypal account or out of your checking account.

 

Paypal also has a looooonnggg history of freezing accounts for seemingly completely arbitrary reasons. I'd recommend that you never leave enough funds in a paypal account where the loss of those funds would hurt you, *especially* if you run a business. I have a "paypal-dedicated" checking account that I sweep all paypal payments I receive into as soon as I receive them. I then transfer the funds from that account into another account that is not registered with paypal so there is no chance of paypal pulling them back out.

 

I'm really surprised that paypal doesn't have lots of competition yet. I recently read about a new service called "Dwolla" that might be a viable competitor, but don't know all their policies and haven't used them yet. Supposedly there is no charge on transactions under $10 and a flat $.25 fee on transacations >= $10:

 

http://www.dwolla.com/

...and if folks send cash as gift, no charges.

 

The downside to sending a paypal payment as a 'gift' when you are the buyer is you then have no recourse if the seller doesn't perform on their end of the transaction.

"certain"... I have used paypal a million times over.. and I have yet to have a single problem.. in fact one item was damaged in transport and they actually went above and beyond to help me resolve the issue..

 

and the "empty box" scam? if there is some online payment system that can guarantee I will not be scammed in any way.. PLEASE let me know about it.. I am more than interested..

 

The empty box scam is when a seller sends you an empty box with a tracking number. When you say you never got the item the seller sends the tracking # to paypal (which says you got it) and they drop the investigation.

 

I am not saying anything is perfect, but why support a business that is against something that you believe in?

The empty box scam is when a seller sends you an empty box with a tracking number. When you say you never got the item the seller sends the tracking # to paypal (which says you got it) and they drop the investigation.

 

I am not saying anything is perfect, but why support a business that is against something that you believe in?

 

because there fails to be a better system.. I do not believe in the current US government... but I don't go live in a cave somewhere.. if there was a better system out there.. then I would certainly use it... I do NOT like companies that oppose things I am passionate about.. but like I said.. what can I do.. there is nothing better..

 

also while I KNOW that people send empty boxes.. when you use things like Ebay or forums.. in which you can read detailed feedback.. it is pretty unusual to get burnt over one transaction.. I don't buy from people who do not have established feedback..

 

like I said.. I totally get your point.. just fail to see a better safer option..

like I said.. I totally get your point.. just fail to see a better safer option..

I agree that forum feedback is the best safety net we have!

 

As Paypal has actually locked me for selling a Troy sight (not a gun, ammo, or a "asualt weapon part" which used to be part of their prohibited items) I guess we just see things a little differently.

 

Consequently I would rather buy face to face, or from a reputable online dealer with my credit card at this point.

Actually Ant hit a great point... in the thousands of paypal transactions, only had one or two small issues that were resolved quickly. As they say in banking, KYC, know your customer. And yes.... transfer money out of paypal. =)

 

While Paypal does not support guns.... in a way, they are supporting gun businesses by providing us a service, whether they like it or not.

 

I don't recall the last time I used Ebay for anything, as most things can be found through communities such as NJGF, or good deals on new items. Between the two, the risks of getting scammed are minimal.

I hadn't heard PayPal doesn't support guns. Was looking at website for Classic Pistol indoor range and shop in PA. They seem to prefer you purchase your membership via PayPal....even indicating you get five bucks back for doing so. I use PP rarely but so far haven't had any issues.

I agree that forum feedback is the best safety net we have!

 

As Paypal has actually locked me for selling a Troy sight (not a gun, ammo, or a "asualt weapon part" which used to be part of their prohibited items) I guess we just see things a little differently.

 

Consequently I would rather buy face to face, or from a reputable online dealer with my credit card at this point.

 

I completely understand that.. one bad experience can be enough to ruin my entire opinion of a company!

I use PayPal quite a bit. I'm aware of their anti-gun policies as well as ebay's, but, sometimes, there's no way around using them. In the 10+ years I've been using PayPal, I've been lucky and never had any problems (probably just jynxed myself)

 

The one thing I don't get is what does "certain" entail? I was recently looking for a very specific gun part for a very specific gun. I searched high and low for this thing for months with no luck.. then one day I checked ebay for sh*ts and giggles.. and there it was. Bought it using PayPal and had it 3 days later.

i listed gun parts on ebay that had some type of notation that made them consider them "parts to be used in a possible assault weapon" they ended the auction early but there were no other repercussions..

 

the auction was like "Bushmaster AR15 stock"

I have had thousands of PP transactions and have have less then 5 issues in all of them. Most are easily taken care of. Granted, out of all of them, only 20 have been gun related. I don't see any issue. I also use the goft option to skate the fees.

I llike paypal and never had issue that wasn't resolved quickly. I use it to pay for parts for my late 30's/early 40's BMW motorcycles on Ebay Germany when the seller takes it. Europe hasn't fully taken to paypal but it beats paying $35+ for a bank transfer.

I don't use it often but I have never had a problem. I have bought grips and stocks with it and did not have any issue.

I use PayPal frequently for purchases whether from individuals on a gun website (many, many times) or through a retail webpage. I have never had any issue with them at all. It is fast and easy. Do I wish they were more gun-friendly? Sure, but their political stance is their right and has nothing to do with me.

 

BTW - I assume you are all NJGF supporters. Guess how I made my donation.

I've used Paypal for many years performing transactions with my radio communications and flashlight hobbies. I've send/received tens of thousands of dollars over the years and have never had an issue. What I don't like is that their fee seems to continue to increase. I never knew they were anti-firearms, but I won't let that stop me from using Paypal. At this time, there is simply no better alternative to get funds from one place to the other, when a face-to-face transaction is not possible. As far a not using Paypal because of them being anti-gun, you're still living in NJ and that's about as anti-gun as you can get. As much as we **** and complain, I don't see a line at the border with people exiting the state of NJ, simply because of firearms laws.

If there was a better and more widely used system that was as easy as Paypal I would change, but for convenience and ease of used for both buying and paying for some things it has worked well for me.

Beat the system, use gift payments. Of course only if you trust & know the person, since I believe you waive any protection that way

I avoid it when possible(because of their anti views), but still use it when I cannot.

Paypal is heavily slanted towards the buyer. My wife has had two instances where the buyer filed a claim saying that they never received the package. Despite USPS signature proof of delivery, Paypal refunded the buyers money and basically told us to go pound sand. Neither of us will accept Paypal for payment on anything. My preference now is for USPS money orders.

As long as I've been using Paypal, I didn't realize that checking the GIFT option basically disolved the buyer of any responsibilities. Is that really the case?

As long as I've been using Paypal, I didn't realize that checking the GIFT option basically disolved the buyer of any responsibilities. Is that really the case?

 

dissolves the seller of any responsibility..

because you are not "buying a good" you are "sending a money gift".. paying for a good with the gift option is essentially saying "here is $XXX it is a gift.. you are not obligated to do anything for the money.."

Got it. Thanks. We always used the GIFT option because we were under the impression it saved or eliminated some of the fees associated with the transaction.

Got it. Thanks. We always used the GIFT option because we were under the impression it saved or eliminated some of the fees associated with the transaction.

 

It does save the seller the fees, as long as you are funding it by bank or out of your paypal balance. Otherwise, if you send as gift, and pay by CC, the seller is dinged with fee, and you get no buyer protection.