Maybe it's already been posted, I looked for it, but didn't see any mention. Apparenlty the Attorney General is being given the authority to decide what ammo is legal/illegal in NJ. The bill is likely to be passed, and was snuck under the noses of Pro-2A groups. I believe the bill is A588. Anyone have any more info? Am I right to be worried that all firearms are essentially illegal, seeing as how they need ammunition to operate?

I saw this on the ANJRPC website (http://www.anjrpc.org/). Apparently, this is being considered by committee on Monday, June 30. The weblink provides phone numbers and emails of committee members.

 

We should all call and urge them not to approve this legislation.

Sorry. Figures just a few minutes after posting this, I saw the post made by CemetaryBob.

 

So who's planning on going up to Trenton on Monday?

Here's a facebook group I made, so we can get people to fight this, even if they aren't members of NJGF, NJCCA, NJ2AS, NRA, etc.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/345181032167418/

http://e-lobbyist.co...its/text/519694

 

They are going after ammo for the Five-seveN handgun. This wording is added to the part of the law N.J.S.2C:39-3 that prohibits hollow points:

 

or (3) any person, other than a law enforcement officer, who knowingly has in his possession handgun ammunition which (a) has a full metal jacket and an ogive with a steel penetrator tip followed by an aluminum core and is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, or (b) after testing, the Attorney General determines poses a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement officers because of the materials, be they metallic or nonmetallic, used in its composition or because its ogive, core or jacket are of a design, construction or formulation which makes it capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

This is the explanation:

Police officers recently encountered a new and highly destructive bullet. The SS190AP ammunition for the Five-seveN Tactical handgun is uniquely designed. It is a full metal jacketed bullet, but utilizes two metal inserts. The tip of the bullet has a steel penetrator which is followed by an aluminum core. The weight relationship between the two metals causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue, resulting in massive and, in many instances, deadly wounds.

But it is not just the substantial body trauma these bullets can cause that makes them a special threat to the law enforcement community. When fired from the Five-seveN handgun, the SS190AP bullet can penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar (the protective material used to make many types of body armor).

This bill would prohibit individuals, other than law enforcement officers and other statutorily exempted parties (such as members of the Armed Forces of the United States and licensed dealers who sell these type of ammunition to the military or law enforcement agencies), from legally possessing ammunition designed and constructed like the SS190AP bullet that can penetrate body armor. Violators would be guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. A crime of the fourth degree is punishable by a fine of not more than $10,000; imprisonment for a term of not more than 18 months; or both.

It doesn't matter if they are specifically targetting the SS190, that is already illegal both under federal law and state law.

 

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2005/01/012005-openletter-tech-fabrique-nationale-pistol.html

 

What is it with our legislature that seems to think we need to take an already illegal item/act/whatever and pass another law to make it illegal again?

 

Not only that, but I would love for the people for this law to cite a single case where SS190 ammo was used in a crime in this state, let alone the country.

It doesn't matter if they are specifically targetting the SS190, that is already illegal both under federal law and state law.

 

http://www.atf.gov/p...ale-pistol.html

 

What is it with our legislature that seems to think we need to take an already illegal item/act/whatever and pass another law to make it illegal again?

 

Not only that, but I would love for the people for this law to cite a single case where SS190 ammo was used in a crime in this state, let alone the country.

 

You're right. It's banning ammo that is already banned.

It doesn't matter if they are specifically targetting the SS190, that is already illegal both under federal law and state law.

 

http://www.atf.gov/p...ale-pistol.html

 

What is it with our legislature that seems to think we need to take an already illegal item/act/whatever and pass another law to make it illegal again?

 

Not only that, but I would love for the people for this law to cite a single case where SS190 ammo was used in a crime in this state, let alone the country.

 

I doubt that the standard thug knows enough about ammunition to realize this round's capabilites. And even if they did, I doubt they'd pay the $4 per bullet it costs.

I doubt that the standard thug knows enough about ammunition to realize this round's capabilites. And even if they did, I doubt they'd pay the $4 per bullet it costs.

 

Not only that but I do beleive that the Five-seveN itself costs quite a bit more than your standard handgun too...

According the FBI, no police were killed by the 5.7 ammo from 2001 to 2010. Data from 2011 is probably forthcoming.

 

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/leoka-2010/tables/table35-leok-feloniously-with-firearms-type-firearm-ammunition-01-10.xls

http://e-lobbyist.co...its/text/519694

 

They are going after ammo for the Five-seveN handgun. This wording is added to the part of the law N.J.S.2C:39-3 that prohibits hollow points:

 

or (3) any person, other than a law enforcement officer, who knowingly has in his possession handgun ammunition which (a) has a full metal jacket and an ogive with a steel penetrator tip followed by an aluminum core and is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, or (b) after testing, the Attorney General determines poses a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement officers because of the materials, be they metallic or nonmetallic, used in its composition or because its ogive, core or jacket are of a design, construction or formulation which makes it capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

 

This is the explanation:

Police officers recently encountered a new and highly destructive bullet. The SS190AP ammunition for the Five-seveN Tactical handgun is uniquely designed. It is a full metal jacketed bullet, but utilizes two metal inserts. The tip of the bullet has a steel penetrator which is followed by an aluminum core. The weight relationship between the two metals causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue, resulting in massive and, in many instances, deadly wounds.

But it is not just the substantial body trauma these bullets can cause that makes them a special threat to the law enforcement community. When fired from the Five-seveN handgun, the SS190AP bullet can penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar (the protective material used to make many types of body armor).

This bill would prohibit individuals, other than law enforcement officers and other statutorily exempted parties (such as members of the Armed Forces of the United States and licensed dealers who sell these type of ammunition to the military or law enforcement agencies), from legally possessing ammunition designed and constructed like the SS190AP bullet that can penetrate body armor. Violators would be guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. A crime of the fourth degree is punishable by a fine of not more than $10,000; imprisonment for a term of not more than 18 months; or both.

 

Ss190AP is already basically prohibited by federal law from importation,.....nevermind the fact that AP handgun Ammo is also already prohibited by both Federal and NJ state law.

Not only that but I do beleive that the Five-seveN itself costs quite a bit more than your standard handgun too...

nope, between $800 and $1000 generally, they even make 10 round magazines for us folks behind the lines.

nope, between $800 and $1000 generally, they even make 10 round magazines for us folks behind the lines.

 

Really? I'd like to see that, that's the one handgun I actually like, besides the luger. I always thought they went for 2K.

Sponsoring "new" legislation that addresses something already plainly illegal gives the sponsor/s the right to puff up their chest/s come re-election time. This has nothing to do with ammunition, and everything to do with politics. We don't need more laws or regulations, but we keep getting them because we're on our way to the "Nanny" state, and our politicians are completely out of touch with real people. Drive with your headlights on in the rain. Don't talk on the phone. Wear a seatbelt. Wear a helmet if you ride a bike....our founding fathers would not recognize our nation at this point in time. We've wrapped ourselves up with so much government that we are all suffocating to death.

Really? I'd like to see that, that's the one handgun I actually like, besides the luger. I always thought they went for 2K.

 

Contact PK90. He sells them!

Really? I'd like to see that, that's the one handgun I actually like, besides the luger. I always thought they went for 2K.

Retail is right around $1350....out the door is generally cheaper.. doesnt cost anything to do a price request from our vendors here if you're interested, or just do what i do and call Pk90

 

 

Really? I'd like to see that, that's the one handgun I actually like, besides the luger. I always thought they went for 2K.

 

Walk into a gun shop. I've probably seen a hundred for sale over the years, and I don't think I've ever seen one even touch $1000 new. Unfortunately, I've never seen one below $900 either. Further, with a 10 round mag, the handgun is complete suxville.

Walk into a gun shop. I've probably seen a hundred for sale over the years, and I don't think I've ever seen one even touch $1000 new. Unfortunately, I've never seen one below $900 either. Further, with a 10 round mag, the handgun is complete suxville.

 

Well, when I'm 21, I think I know what I'm going to get. They are just really nice, I haven't had the chance to handle a real one. I'm really not a handgun guy though.

 

And I'm not planning on living in NJ much past graduation. In a few years I'll move to a real state, and get some real mags. XD

If this does pass today, it would only be passing out of a committee in just the Assembly. It would still have to pass the whole Assembly and the Senate, and then Governor RINO would have to sign it.

 

I'd like to see these bills DOA today, but if they aren't, we will have plenty of time and places to fight them.

If this does pass today, it would only be passing out of a committee in just the Assembly. It would still have to pass the whole Assembly and the Senate, and then Governor RINO would have to sign it.

 

I'd like to see these bills DOA today, but if they aren't, we will have plenty of time and places to fight them.

 

You're correct, but I think something garnering backlash before they even move forward on proposing it has the potential to make an even stronger statement. The long term ideal would be that even discussing this kind of legislation would come to be viewed as a political liability. At least, that's the dream...