I know this came up on another thread... about the capabilities of the government to eavesdrop on internet traffic, phone calls, etc... Well they are expanding those capabilities, big time.

 

The NSA Is Building the Country’s Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say)

 

Link at Wired

If that facility is DC rather than AC, that is just a staggering density of storage.

Crazy.

NSA has been doing this since the 60's..it's nothing new

I often remind people that talk about encryption like it's the be-all and end-all of data privacy: The day there is a breakthrough in quantum computing is the day all forms of encryption currently existing on the earth become utterly useless.

I often remind people that talk about encryption like it's the be-all and end-all of data privacy: The day there is a breakthrough in quantum computing is the day all forms of encryption currently existing on the earth become utterly useless.

 

Not quantum cryptography.

Haha, I suppose not. I'm referring more to the several petabytes worth of encrypted communications data that will probably be collected in various places until that day comes. Real tinfoil-hat stuff

George Orwell was prophetic. He just got the year and technology wrong.

This is an interesting article, and I'm a bit surprised with some of the information that out got to Wired. With that said, I support it, even having worked for NSA/CSS during my Army days (unclassified, don't worry). With that said, even with the article, there is a lot that hasn't been told with how these things work, and, in the end, this is NOT ground-breaking stuff, at all. As KDP said, NSA has been doing it foreverrrrrrrrr, going back before the 60s to agencies and units that predate the NSA.

 

So, if people honestly think this is a game-changer of sorts, you have officially eaten from the hand of disinformation!

 

ETA: The difference that the UT center will provide is the potential cloud capability, which I'm not a big fan of because it goes against the whole philosophy of how intelligence is suppose to work (compartmentalization). But there are smarter people then me that obviously think this is how it should be.

This is an interesting article, and I'm a bit surprised with some of the information that out got to Wired. With that said, I support it, even having worked for NSA/CSS during my Army days (unclassified, don't worry). With that said, even with the article, there is a lot that hasn't been told with how these things work, and, in the end, this is NOT ground-breaking stuff, at all. As KDP said, NSA has been doing it foreverrrrrrrrr, going back before the 60s to agencies and units that predate the NSA.

 

So, if people honestly think this is a game-changer of sorts, you have officially eaten from the hand of disinformation!

 

ETA: The difference that the UT center will provide is the potential cloud capability, which I'm not a big fan of because it goes against the whole philosophy of how intelligence is suppose to work (compartmentalization). But there are smarter people then me that obviously think this is how it should be.

 

Isn't collecting data on citizens technically unconstitutional, unless there is a warrant? I don't really see the difference between monitoring all of my email and other online communications, and reading my mail, or searching my house... It's different if it's something like a facebook status, but what about private messages and emails between individuals?

You're right, but information is not collected on US citizens (the broad definition, not the obvious one) without consent from the AG. Even the infamous wire-taps were signed off by the AG-- and I know this for a fact, regardless of what was reported, or what some whistleblower said. To speak to that, the major issue with the wire-tap fiasco was with the release of privileged information by cellular providers (like AT&T, etc.) to the government.

 

As for emails and other related data, I can't divulge details because I don't want to go to the pen, but it falls under the same umbrella as the above. There are policies that must be followed, or the intel analysts can be sh*t-canned very quickly, to the point of being removed from duty. These orders were so serious that we had to test our knowledge of said orders on a quarterly basis, including keeping up-to-date with any changes.

 

My disclaimer is that I saw things from the ground-level... the operational level. Everything that I saw was legit, including the process in which things had to be done-- as that was a part of the main objective of the mission. Simply getting the information wasn't the whole job, but doing so in the legal and correct manner. However, beyond my periphery, and to the upper echelons of the food chain, I can't comment because I simply don't know. But I never saw any type of unlawful orders pushed down upon anybody from up top.

Isn't collecting data on citizens technically unconstitutional, unless there is a warrant? I don't really see the difference between monitoring all of my email and other online communications, and reading my mail, or searching my house... It's different if it's something like a facebook status, but what about private messages and emails between individuals?

 

yes...and no. it cannot be USED against someone or as Probable cause without a warrant. that said, Airways and even Phone Transmission lines are TECHNICALLY Public, There is soem rather interesting history when it comes to telephone communications, the development of switching technology, and how it was used for intelligence gathering...specifically the guy who invented the "Modern" telephone switching system, gave the US Govt complete access to the "Hidden" parts of the technology which essentially allowed them to listen in to anyone they wanted. As far as NSA, Echelon is no longer a secret, they have been running just about every word spoken over phone lines, and transmitted through filters to spot certain keywords for decades...as the tech gets better, so does their coverage.

yes...and no. it cannot be USED against someone or as Probable cause without a warrant. that said, Airways and even Phone Transmission lines are TECHNICALLY Public, There is soem rather interesting history when it comes to telephone communications, the development of switching technology, and how it was used for intelligence gathering...specifically the guy who invented the "Modern" telephone switching system, gave the US Govt complete access to the "Hidden" parts of the technology which essentially allowed them to listen in to anyone they wanted. As far as NSA, Echelon is no longer a secret, they have been running just about every word spoken over phone lines, and transmitted through filters to spot certain keywords for decades...as the tech gets better, so does their coverage.

 

I just don't understand how this can truly be justified. I don't see how they can do this, and what is the purpose? I know the idea of "to prevent terrorism" comes up, but seriously, even I'm starting to believe that our government uses the specter of terrorism to get away with agregious violations against our civil rights and our constitution.

I just don't understand how this can truly be justified. I don't see how they can do this, and what is the purpose? I know the idea of "to prevent terrorism" comes up, but seriously, even I'm starting to believe that our government uses the specter of terrorism to get away with agregious violations against our civil rights and our constitution.

Terrorism???? Dude this has been going on LONG before "Terrorism" became fashionable.

Terrorism???? Dude this has been going on LONG before "Terrorism" became fashionable.

 

Oh, of course. However, most of the stuff that they're doing now is being justified by citing terrorism. I mean NDRP is being pushed because of the "Crisis with Iran" . It should seem fairly apparent that Iran doesn't want a war with us. They threatened to block Hormuz once, but backed off. I think they're afraid of a war with us, I don't think they're much of a threat to us at all. I mean hell, the Patriot Act was passed under that guise. I just think it's a bit of a slippery slope really.

Oh, of course. However, most of the stuff that they're doing now is being justified by citing terrorism. I mean NDRP is being pushed because of the "Crisis with Iran" . It should seem fairly apparent that Iran doesn't want a war with us. They threatened to block Hormuz once, but backed off. I think they're afraid of a war with us, I don't think they're much of a threat to us at all. I mean hell, the Patriot Act was passed under that guise. I just think it's a bit of a slippery slope really.

 

terrorism is just the current aspect of it..Like I said that slope has been there a LONG time...

Most western countries have laws that severely restrict the government from eavesdropping on their own citizens. One way they get around this is they have other countries security agencies monitor the communications, we monitor Canada's and Great Britain's phone calls and emails, they monitor ours.

Most western countries have laws that severely restrict the government from eavesdropping on their own citizens. One way they get around this is they have other countries security agencies monitor the communications, we monitor Canada's and Great Britain's phone calls and emails, they monitor ours.

 

Simple fact is that no matter WHAT the Law says, the NSA has, will and will continue to monitor pretty much every aspect of communications here and abroad, open or encrypted.

Simple fact is that no matter WHAT the Law says, the NSA has, will and will continue to monitor pretty much every aspect of communications here and abroad, open or encrypted.

 

Isn't great that the government doesn't have to follow all those pesky laws. The Constitution? Who needs it.

Isn't great that the government doesn't have to follow all those pesky laws. The Constitution? Who needs it.

 

The argument is that the constitution applies to prosecution..anything that they take in can't be used in a legal proceeding..Since the NSA is not a Law Enforcement Agency, then the 4th amendment doesnt apply. Frankly TSA and DHS have a far greater and intrusive impact on the day-to-day lives of our Citizens than what NSA does..while they read everyone's mail, they generally DONT talk about it to any other agency without some very stringent protocols in place, and even then only in the case of National Security

I often remind people that talk about encryption like it's the be-all and end-all of data privacy: The day there is a breakthrough in quantum computing is the day all forms of encryption currently existing on the earth become utterly useless.

 

Except quantum encryption, which will suddenly become available.

The argument is that the constitution applies to prosecution..anything that they take in can't be used in a legal proceeding..Since the NSA is not a Law Enforcement Agency, then the 4th amendment doesnt apply. Frankly TSA and DHS have a far greater and intrusive impact on the day-to-day lives of our Citizens than what NSA does..while they read everyone's mail, they generally DONT talk about it to any other agency without some very stringent protocols in place, and even then only in the case of National Security

 

No argument that the DHS and TSA impact our lives daily. I just don't like being spied on, doesn't matter if it someone who is LE or not. I think all this has become muddled as to what is legal and who can do what. If the information is there for the picking, then someone will get access. I know there are protocols in place, but the whole national security reason is getting more and more watered down. hopefully I am just being paranoid.

Kool. just start nagging & the algorithm will stop recording you in order to save hard drive space...

 

 

Except quantum encryption, which will suddenly become available.

 

I'm referring to previously recorded and stored encrypted data that is no longer in the control of the party that encrypted it.

The argument is that the constitution applies to prosecution..anything that they take in can't be used in a legal proceeding..Since the NSA is not a Law Enforcement Agency, then the 4th amendment doesnt apply. Frankly TSA and DHS have a far greater and intrusive impact on the day-to-day lives of our Citizens than what NSA does..while they read everyone's mail, they generally DONT talk about it to any other agency without some very stringent protocols in place, and even then only in the case of National Security

 

But with things such as NDAA, it is possible for them to detain you indefinitely without trial. You don't NEED to actually prosecute someone if you can just keep them locked up for as long as you want.

Along the lines of government snooping.... (fasten your tin foil hat securely before clicking) http://survivalblog.com/2012/03/important-message-from-jwr-the-fbis-cookie-caper-and-the-vpn-imperative.html

No argument that the DHS and TSA impact our lives daily. I just don't like being spied on, doesn't matter if it someone who is LE or not. I think all this has become muddled as to what is legal and who can do what. If the information is there for the picking, then someone will get access. I know there are protocols in place, but the whole national security reason is getting more and more watered down. hopefully I am just being paranoid.

 

Wish i could tell you something to make you feel better..but it really isnt anything new..as far as getting access..again when we are talking NSA, AFAIK, that does NOT happen..NSA doesnt play Bradley manning Games, if you know what i mean.

The 4A doesn't care if the intent or the government agency is LE or not, prosecution-oriented or not. The 4A hinges a bit more on the type of investigation, rather than the type of government agency. But, here's the problem, what are YOU gonna do about the NSA's spying?

 

The only thing you can do is object to any information if it is raised against you during prosecution.

 

Or, you could start at civil lawsuit for damages for violating your 4A rights under color of government action. But, there are problems.

 

First, standing. You have no idea if they actually have any information on you; you can't plead any specific facts. So, your complaint/suit won't survive a motion to dismiss (see SCOTUS's Twombly decision). You won't even make it to discovery.

 

Assuming your suit did survive the motion to dismiss--which you wouldn't...ever, NONE of their activities are discoverable in a civil trial, because they're Secret or higher security and a matter of National Security and the balance of interests falls in the government's favor, because they're "not using it to hurt you!" Courts won't delve into what the NSA does absent HUGE political pressure (trust me, judges read the papers and can be swayed by public and political pressure and what's in the news) and/or evidence that what they are doing is actually harming you.

 

If you don't like people spying on you, ditch your phones, computers, credit cards, bank accounts, cars, house and job. Go all cash and move to west West Virginia. Otherwise, in the words of the great Roger Waters...Welcome to the Machine.