I've been trying to find a website that allows a comparison between UK and USA (and Australia) regarding firearm related details. I've struggled to find any that I have a level of confidence in their objectivity however this morning I found www.gunpolicy.org. I've not validated the objectivity of the website however it does at least have statistics that are fairly straight forward to compare (assuming they are apples to apples and somewhat correct??)

 

Stats are from the latest year that allows for country comparison

 

1) Number of Privately Owned Firearms:

US: 270,000,000

UK: 4,060,000

 

2) Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 pop: [year 2009]

US: 88.2

UK: 6.7

 

3) Number of Homicides (any method): [year 2006]

US: 17,030

UK: 875

 

4) Rate of Homicides per 100,000 people (any method) [year 2006]

US: 5.70 (note this has decreased to 4.96 by 2009)

UK: 1.44

 

5) Number of Gun Homicides [year 2006]

US: 10,225

UK: 68

 

6) Rate of Gun Homicides per 100,000 People [year 2006]

US: 3.42

UK: 0.08

 

7) Number of Gun Suicides [year 2005 US, year 2006 UK]

US: 17,002

UK: 130

 

8) Rate of Gun Suicide per 100,000 People [year 2005 US, year 2006 UK]

US: 5.75

UK: 0.21

 

9) Number of Unintentional Gun Deaths [year 2005 US, year 2006 UK]

US: 789

UK: 5

 

10) Rate of Unintentional Gun Death per 100,000 People [year 2005 US, year 2006 UK]

US: 0.27

UK: 0.01

 

So what do I perceive from this:

a) It remains difficult to compare between different countries as the data is incomplete, and may not have been calculated the same way

b) as a broad brush statement there is significantly higher gun ownership in the US than the UK

c) as a broad brush statement there is significantly higher gun violence in the US than the UK

d) the stats do not allow for analysis of legal vs illegal gun ownership

e) the stats should not be used to suggest the results of stronger gun control in the US based on the results in the UK since the two countries are significantly different that comparison is going to be misleading, at best.

 

It does however support my viewpoint from having lived in the UK for 30+ years that death due to firearms in the UK is still a rare occurrence (albeit is most likely increasing)

 

I expect that UK gun violence has increased since the UK gun control bills were put in place, however whether this is due to the gun control bill or other factors is not straightforward. Over the last 20+ years the UK has become more tightly integrated into the European Union which has seen significant influx of migrants into the country, for example, there has also been an increase in drugs and drug related violence etc.

 

So the take away from this is let's be careful when using the UK as an example for either pro or anti gun control.

 

hth

 

TheWombat

Add the other weapon of choice in the UK , knife crime...... Massive increase over the last ten years.

Take away or make it difficult to get a gun you will find another method.

Yea, I think some stats regarding knife violence would be interesting to see.

Uk crime stats listed as the stats for the UK are either being misrepresented or are mislabeled. The UK isn't a single nation, and the do not report crimes the same way.

 

For example, in England you don't have a homicide because you have corpse made into such by a third party. You only have a homicide once a conviction is made. On the other hand, scotland reports them similarly to how we do. Their crime stats look much more like ours.

blanket question, and maybe this goes to the NJ2AS folks, but where are stats similar to this but with the key piece of data you note as missing about "legally possessed guns"?

 

I'd also add the data point of whether or not the victims and shooters were citizens or not. Avoiding a debate about the level to which laws are meant to apply and/or protect non-citizens, I think this would be the appropriate way to come up with a true number of crimes committed by citizens who legally possess firearms.

 

Good find TheWombat!

Uk crime stats listed as the stats for the UK are either being misrepresented or are mislabeled. The UK isn't a single nation, and the do not report crimes the same way.

 

For example, in England you don't have a homicide because you have corpse made into such by a third party. You only have a homicide once a conviction is made. On the other hand, scotland reports them similarly to how we do. Their crime stats look much more like ours.

 

Not all states, counties, or towns report crimes the same way either. There are a number of issues with the UCR. Two of the main ones are that police departments, can, have, and will continue to doctor reports to make the town look better. The other is that each incident, even if it is more than one crime, only gets one mention in a UCR.

 

Question on one of my finals a few years ago. A man breaks into his ex-GFs house who is on vacation with her family. Her dog won't be quiet so he kills it. He starts drinking her liquor and putting valuables into her father's car in the garage. As he is about to leave his ex and her family return from vacation early. When they come in the house he freaks out, kills the parents, ties his ex up, rapes her, and kills her too. He sets the house on fire and drives away, drunk, with the car and all the valuables.

 

How many and what crimes are committed?

Burglary, animal cruelty, larceny, 3 murders, rape, arson, DUI.

 

What gets reported on the UCR?

Murder

If you want to prevent people from killing themselves, the rate of gun suicides is irrelevant, what is relevant is the total rate of suicide by any means. Most European countries have higher rates of suicide than the US, showing these statistics in this form is deceptive.

It would be interesting what their stabbings reported would be...or their bludgenings

If you want to prevent people from killing themselves, the rate of gun suicides is irrelevant, what is relevant is the total rate of suicide by any means. Most European countries have higher rates of suicide than the US, showing these statistics in this form is deceptive.

What stands out the most in European suicides is the stats in Norway. As soon as winter hits their suicide rate jumps drastically because of depression.

 

What stands out to me in these 'statistics' is the lack of clarification. For example, the absurdly high homicide rate for firearms. There is no clarification if it was self defense, police involved, gang related, or accidental man slaughter. There is also no distinction between legal and illegal guns. Which, considering how high the death rate is for guns, its more than likely most of those are caused by illegally owned guns (but I'm jumping to conclusions here). There are just to many variables for either side to take into account, and to many variables that are left out intentionally.

Agree on the comments, the data is incomplete and raises many questions hence my first summary point a) at the end of the OP.

 

thanks

 

TheWombat

gunpolicy.org??

 

might as well take stats from the Violence Policy Center.......