Hi all,

 

Need a bit of advice.

 

I have been running 115 gr Lawman ammo through my G19 for the few month that I've had it. No problems.

 

I'm going to start using the GDHP 124gt +P for HD.

 

Looking to place another order for range ammo. Should I spend the extra couple bucks and go with the 124gr Lawman now or do you think I'd be ok with the 115gr?

Should be fine with the 124gr. However, you should run as many rounds of your HD ammo through your gun as possible to make sure it functions correctly.

124grain 9mm ammo definitely has more kick (perhaps because the 124 I used was HD). It is worthwhile to be acquainted with how your HD ammo shoots. You don't want to be surprised be its shooting characteristics when you need to use it for real.

So I would at least get some 124grain ammo. I personally use cheapo 115grain ammo at the range 90% of the time.

That's why I figured I would start using the Speer Lawman in 124gr as my range ammo as its built to closely mimic SD/HD ammo in similar weights.

Personally, I like using 115grain.

 

I think the 115gr feels a bit " snappier " with the recoil, whereas the 124gr feels a little sluggish.

 

Cant hurt that 115gr is a little bit cheaper typically as well.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Here's the thing though - you'll be using +P ammo. I don't find there to be any real noticeable difference between 115gr and 124gr ammo. But between 124gr & 124gr +P there is a large difference.

I also use GDHP 124gt +P for home defense, and tend to use 124 grain fmj for training to keep a POI that is consistent. Best advise is bring the GD and both 115 and 124 grin lawman to the range and see how close they are. The 115 / 124 may or may not make any difference in your gun.

Rather than start a new thread, I did a search and discovered this 4-yr. old thread of a related topic and have added my recent 2016 experience with Speer ammunition.

 

A couple of years ago, I initially decided to buy and stock up with Speer ammunition products due to the many favorable reviews by other shooters that it is very reliable. The fact that they use CCI boxer primers and utilizing cleaner burning propellants and quality brass cartridges (Lawman) and nickeled brass cases (Gold Dot), were all strong selling points for me. While this ammo is a bit more expensive than other widely available ammo, I believed it was worth it for its quality control and resulting consistency and dependability.

 

For the past two years, I have been shooting Speer Lawman 124 gr. TMJ 9mm Luger ammo (#53651), for all of my 9mm pistols, as my range target practice ammo. My Home Defense 9mm ammunition is Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. +P LE Hollow Point ammo (#53617).  I have shot over 1,000 rounds of this ammo through this gun, probably 70% Lawman and 30% GD.  I also subscribe to the belief that it is good to train and practice with both at the range. Like others have stated in this thread, I also want to use an target ammo weight / load that is very similar to one’s HD ammo. This allows me to practice with both target and HD ammo, where the target ammo emulates the load, velocity and bullet weight of my HD ammo, so my practice is more realistic of what I hope to never have to use with the HD ammo….

 

My main home defense pistol is a Glock 17, Gen 4 that I have modified. One of the modifications is the installation of the Pyramid Ultimate Trigger System. As most of you are probably aware, it is a drop-in trigger that transforms the OEM Glock’s trigger, providing a much lighter, shorter, crisper and more consistent trigger action. The Pyramid Ultimate system includes a titanium safety plunger, competition spring kit with springs for 2lb, 4lb and 6lb trigger action; double diamond connector and a skeletonized striker for a faster “pin-to-primer” speed and increased primer penetration. I installed the 2 lb spring into my Glock and have been very pleased with the results, until very recently.

 

Well as I have now learned, Speer’s CCI primers, while cleaner than others, also have the trait of being somewhat harder than most, requiring a solid hit from the firing pin. I discovered this for myself recently when at the range, using a 10-round magazine in my Glock, the first 5 rounds of Speer Lawman ammo would fire properly and then rounds 6-10 would fail-to-fire, with the gun just going “click”...  At first I thought this issue might be caused by a faulty magazine spring, but loading and firing a different OEM Glock magazine produced the same result, first 5 rounds fine, next 5, nothing.  To make a long story longer, working with the Gunsmith at my home range, he replaced the 2 lbs. Pyramid trigger spring with the 4 lbs. spring and was then able to test fire five - fully loaded 10 round magazines with no FTF issues. Problem solved.... Since I already had the spring it was just his labor and time that cost me some $.

Lesson learned:  While a very light trigger may be quite appealing to me and others, for a number of reasons, the need for a dependable and consistent firing action is paramount for a home defense weapon and supersedes the preference for a lighter trigger … (for me)

 

AVB-AMG

Here's my thoughts:  if it's a home defense pistol, why modify it?  You're causing potential failure issues here whereas a factory stock gun (with minor changes like say, night sights) would be more reliable...

Here's my thoughts: if it's a home defense pistol, why modify it? You're causing potential failure issues here whereas a factory stock gun (with minor changes like say, night sights) would be more reliable...

Krdshrk:

 

That is a fair and valid comment...., born out by my experience.

I like to think that particular issue is now resolved so that I should be good to go forward with no more FTF's.

 

BTW, the other modifications I have done to my Glock 17 Gen 4, 9mm, serving as my HD pistol, include:

 

-  Trijicon HD night sights (orange front)

-  Wilson Combat match grade stainless steel barrel

-  A tungsten guide rod and spring

-  Extended aluminum magazine release button

-  Extended slide release

 

I also purchased and affixed to the pistol on its Picatinny rail, a SureFire X400 Ultra LED light with green Laser.

 

All of these modifications and addition has added weight to the front of the gun, which in turn has subtlety, yet noticeably reduced the felt recoil when firing, which I prefer.

Part of the reason that I have replaced some of the stock parts in this gun is my preference for using selected metal parts instead of plastic ones.

 

AVB-AMG

Do you find the feel of Lawman 9mm 124gr FMJ to be similar to the 9mm 124gr +P hollowpoint? Speer advertises Lawman as a training alternative but I was wondering if that's truly the case since Lawman is regular pressure and the Gold Dot is +P.

boo:

Shooting this modified gun, I find or feel that the GD 124gr +P has a slight bit more recoil/kick than the Lawman 124gr, but not dramatically so....

 

AVB-AMG

Lesson learned:  While a very light trigger may be quite appealing to me and others, for a number of reasons, the need for a dependable and consistent firing action is paramount for a home defense weapon and supersedes the preference for a lighter trigger

Wrong lesson. You are focusing on sub components of the problem.  A reliable weapon system is paramount. Your weapon system is a combination of weapon and ammunition (and all accessories I suspect).

 

You have hitched your horse to one brand of ammo and decided to make certain trade offs for it. That's fine, but you cast the problem as reliability vs light triggers as the two were incompatible when the real issues is that a specific type of light trigger and a specific brand of ammo are incompatible.

 

 I shoot a quite lightened trigger system, and I've used tens of thousandths  CCI primers (among others), and I never had one fail to go boom.  I could extrapolate my results and say CCI primers always light up just fine with all light triggers, but I would be wrong.

Vlad G:

 

Technically you are correct, but I think you are sort of splitting hairs, yet I now see how my "Lesson Learned" statement could be misconstrued.

 

Yes, I have made a commitment to a specific brand of 9mm ammunition, which eventually led to the issue with my modified trigger on my Glock 17 Gen 4.  There was/is no trade off...  An issue arose after a period of time and quite a few rounds having been fired.  It was diagnosed and addressed and resolved, with the assistance of a Gunsmith.  We eliminated the problem by swapping out a very light trigger spring to a slightly less light trigger spring.  I have not had any FTF issues with this brand of ammo, either the Lawman or Gold Dot, using any of my other 9mm guns.    Problem solved.

I did not state that my experience is true for others who may have the same Glock with the same Pyramid trigger system, using Speer Lawman ammo with CCI primers, just that it was my experience.   The "Lesson Learned" was my lesson learned and is my opinion and not meant to be a general pronouncement claiming and condemning all light trigger systems, implying that they may have similar problems with this particular brand of ammo.  I apologize for any confusion by not making my original Lesson Learned statement as clear as it could and should have been.

 

AVB-AMG