July 30, 201214 yr I want a rifle and like the 5.45 ammo for price and availability as well as effectiveness. I already bought one spam can. I originally planned on buying a Saiga but have been thinking of buying a AR lower and building up a 5.45 AR. The AR pros as I see it is ability to change uppers to another caliber. The SAIGA seems less expensive though out the door and built to take a beating. What would you recommend for someone likely to only afford one rifle?
July 30, 201214 yr The only question i would have about an ar in 5.45 is the use of corrosive ammo. I rarely clean my AR. I just keep it wet. I imagine you'll be cleaning after each use, even with a chrome barrel. But I suppose you will be doing that with a Saiga too. It will just be easier with the Saiga. I went with the Saiga in 223 for ammo commonality and availability, and the cleaning issue.
July 30, 201214 yr The only question i would have about an ar in 5.45 is the use of corrosive ammo. I rarely clean my AR. I just keep it wet. I imagine you'll be cleaning after each use, even with a chrome barrel. But I suppose you will be doing that with a Saiga too. It will just be easier with the Saiga. I went with the Saiga in 223 for ammo commonality and availability, and the cleaning issue. It's also a sweet shooter.
July 30, 201214 yr Personally I'd go the Saiga or any other "based on AK style action" type rifle for 5.45. You can get a great full "AK74 style" rifle for the price of a 5.45 AR complete upper. Also read around. There looks to be some finickiness with types of mags, and some loading issues. Also, if you plan to go 5.45, I'd grab up as many spam cans as you can find for a good price. It seems there is a shortage of ex-commie spamcam surplus right now. Hopefully the importers will be getting a few new boatloads soon. At the same time of your purchase, grab a AR lower to save on NICS. It will only add another $80 to your budget. You can can then begin a slow AR platform build based on your funds availability.
July 30, 201214 yr Why is saiga your only option? Waffen werks builds an amazing mil-spec '74 for approx $600 on an NDS receiver
July 30, 201214 yr i have a ar and a saiga. I enjoy shooting my saiga a lot more. I also like cleaning the saiga more than the ar. Just opinion.
July 31, 201214 yr 556 Saiga that takes AR mags.. I have had 7.62.. 5.45.. have an S12.. and all that.. but my latest AK build is "the one" http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/37805-pmags-in-556-saiga-win/
July 31, 201214 yr 556 Saiga that takes AR mags.. I have had 7.62.. 5.45.. have an S12.. and all that.. but my latest AK build is "the one" http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/37805-pmags-in-556-saiga-win/ +1 5.45 well for me it comes down to the cost of the finished product. and I believe proper build AR in 5.45 with several mags will cost at least twice as much as restored saiga with several mags. since u re getting a rifle for plinking u really should try both and see for urself. although they both go "boom" and send out projectiles going same direction, those rifle are actually very different... don't concern urself too much with accuracy, u re not buying a sniper rifle. for the 50 - 100 range that u mostly gonna be shooting both rifles will perform very well. look at the overall pic....
August 3, 201214 yr Author well, 5.45 seems much more affordable that 5.56 and just as effective. this is a plinking and SHTF rifle to go with my mossy 500 and my 1911. and I already have 1080 of 5.45.
August 3, 201214 yr well, 5.45 seems much more affordable that 5.56 and just as effective. this is a plinking and SHTF rifle to go with my mossy 500 and my 1911. and I already have 1080 of 5.45. where do you plan to find 5.45 in a "shtf" collapse of society scenario? are you going to salvage the abandoned Russian small military armories all throughout the US? Mags are just as common... a 556 AK with an AR magwell is the ultimate SHTF weapon.. *it does not care what you feed it 223.. 556.. steel.. brass.. etc.. *takes common AR 15 mags *will take a beating without cleaning and so on.. it has all the commonness that an AR has.. with the durability of an AK..
August 3, 201214 yr where do you plan to find 5.45 in a "shtf" collapse of society scenario? are you going to salvage the abandoned Russian small military armories all throughout the US? Mags are just as common... I just laughed out loud. Good thing i.wasn't drinking milk.
August 4, 201214 yr I just laughed out loud. Good thing i.wasn't drinking milk. seriously... "society falls apart" how long is a thousand rounds really going to last..
August 4, 201214 yr seriously... "society falls apart" how long is a thousand rounds really going to last.. 1/10th as long as 10,000 rounds
August 7, 201214 yr Author Jeez, thanks, i thought one spam can would last lifetime. Do you think i should get maybe 2 or 3 more cartriges.
August 7, 201214 yr Jeez, thanks, i thought one spam can would last lifetime. Do you think i should get maybe 2 or 3 more cartriges. When you shoot exotic calibers (and outside Eastern Bloc countries, 5.45x39 is exotic), you should always have an eye out for good deals. And swoop down on them and buy in bulk.
August 7, 201214 yr Jeez, thanks, i thought one spam can would last lifetime. Do you think i should get maybe 2 or 3 more cartriges. the point is this... You stated the premise of the gun was a SHTF weapon system... so just to pretend there is a breakdown in society.. tomorrow.. sure.. the ammo you have will last some time.. but once it runs out... and you are forced to scavenge, where do you think you will run across this ammo? While I do not necisarily believe there will ever be a complete break down in society.. I built my rifles under the assumption that there may be... my two mid range rifles (AK and AR) are both chambered in 556.. shoot BOTH 556 and 223.. and use AR magazines.. 556/223 and AR magazines will be one of the most likely weapons components you may run across in a rifle.. as the military.. some LEO.. and many civilians use them.. 5.45 not so much.... even take a simpler scenario... the US wants to ban guns.. they know they can't.. so they nail importation to the wall.. so now all that cheap Russian surplus is a thing of the past.. everyone says OH if that happened domestic ammo producers would just start producing these ammos based on demand.. but you have to ask yourself.. would they? mass producers of ammo are already setup to manufacture common domestic calibers.. they already sell in such volume that they can not stay stocked.. what motivation does a company like Hornady have to abruptly shift focus from precision ammo that they can't keep in stock.. to manufacturing and selling other ammos? they can already not keep up.. they already sell out.. there is no benefit for the investment.. that is why I have wiped my hands of foreign produced ammo.. and kept very minimal caliber diversity.. 7.62x51 / 308 long range 556 / 223 mid range 12 gauge shotgun 40S&W handgun that is what I shoot and that is ALL I shoot.. I dont think ANY of those will be going anywhere anytime soon.. if your ammo disappears you are left with an big heavy club.. and that is about it..
August 9, 201214 yr Author those are very good points Vlad. my reason for leaning towards the 5.45 is purly financial. I can get a larger number of these rounds than the 5.56, and since they have similar ballistics the choice comes down to money and quantity. I already have a 1911, mossberg 500 and a winchester94.
August 9, 201214 yr The Saiga 223 (or any Saiga) eats steel cased ammo all day long. The steel cased 223 is cheap (a lot cheaper than brass cased) and close in price to 5.45x39 surplus.
October 23, 201214 yr Author well I went in a slightly different but related direction. I stumbled onto centerfiresystems.com and picked up Vepr($499) in 5.45x39 with 20 inch barrel and the front sight on the end of the barrel where it belongs. Took it to the Atlantic County Range Facility with 120 rounds(wish I brought more) Man what a fine rifle, I could have shot all day long and put a full spam can through her. Smooth as butter and very accurate irons out of the box. After 40 round thru my 30/30 Winchester94 I'm done, but nothing like that with the Vepr. It is now a slobbering love affair.
November 26, 201213 yr The only question i would have about an ar in 5.45 is the use of corrosive ammo. I rarely clean my AR. I just keep it wet. I imagine you'll be cleaning after each use, even with a chrome barrel. But I suppose you will be doing that with a Saiga too. It will just be easier with the Saiga. I went with the Saiga in 223 for ammo commonality and availability, and the cleaning issue. Silver Bear 60 grain is dirt cheap and non-corrosive. 750 rounds for less than 200 bucks delivered it's tough to beat compared to 223 ammo.
November 27, 201213 yr Silver Bear 60 grain is dirt cheap and non-corrosive. 750 rounds for less than 200 bucks delivered it's tough to beat compared to 223 ammo. I think the last time I bought .223 it was 218.00 for 1000 rounds. .223 and 5.45 are pretty much neck and neck.
December 25, 201213 yr I haven't bought .223 in a long time but I'm hearing how expensive it is right now. Expensive being relative to what it cost a year ago. I just sold 28 boxes of AE black box for what I thought was good money because I still have ton more I handload .223/5.56 and I have thousands of cases, CCI #4 primers, and projectiles. I keep the factory round for when my kids shoot and I always shoot my own rounds. Federal xm193 is 320 per 1000 plus shipping this morning on a google search. . OP enjoy the VEPR.
December 25, 201213 yr where do you plan to find 5.45 in a "shtf" collapse of society scenario? are you going to salvage the abandoned Russian small military armories all throughout the US? Mags are just as common... And where do you plan on salvaging 5.56, Rambo?
December 25, 201213 yr And where do you plan on salvaging 5.56, Rambo? Every Walmart and gun store sells 223. When some new stupid import ban happens, good luck with 5.45. I guess American ammo companies could start making it, but that is probably wishful thinking. In the zombie apocalypse, good luck finding any ammo.
December 25, 201213 yr Eh some of us aren't always buying guns for shtf tho. I don't see Russian ammo drying up anytime soon. Plus with these times, everyone is buying ars and some.don't even have ammo for them.
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