http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/07/newark_police_ramp_up_gun_seiz.html

 

I urge everyone to follow the link and post a comment. It's actually a decent article detailing Newark PD's work with the FBI to lean on low level gangbangers to reduce violence in Newark by seizing guns from the higher level bangers. The major takeaway from the article is that real police work reduces violence and that all the other feel-good but worthless "solutions" (may-issue, purchase permit, OGAM, "buy-backs") have zero effect on crime.

Shocker..let the cops do their job and you see results. Handcuff them and crime rises. Politicians and most of the public don't get it

That's why i say put a chipper on the edge of town. and let the police toss the useless members of society in it. watch how fast the crime rate changes... jmho

I say it all the time. I'm all for profiling.

Shocker..let the cops do their job and you see results. Handcuff them and crime rises. Politicians and most of the public don't get it

 

This is evident from adoption of Bratton's "broken window" policy started during Guilianni's administration.

They need to lock the revolving door. They need to stop letting these animals out after serving such a small percentage of the time sentenced.

Agreed. One of the biggest problems is by criminalizing things like drug possession, or not just criminalizing it, but making it a focus, as it means police have to spend time dealing with it, and other non-violent crimes, and are prevented the opportunity to focus on stuff that really matters. But of course when political agendas are forced onto people what would you expect?

 

I can just picture a cop investigating a rape or robbery or something, and being told to not bother because they need someone to deal with some minor drug possession offenses or something. I don't mean this literally, but I rather how I see the political aspect messing with things.

 

I say it all the time. I'm all for profiling.

 

What type of profiling? I am completely AGAINST profiling that strips innocent people of basic civil rights for the sake of maybe catching a criminal, like the NYPD's stop and frisk BS. I am against the BS profiling that is Janet Napolitano's "see something say something" propaganda that does little more then get innocent people hassled, and legitimate concerns get ignored. Profiling based off little more than race or location without any actual prior investigation, observation, or studies is complete crap.

Agreed. One of the biggest problems is by criminalizing things like drug possession, or not just criminalizing it, but making it a focus, as it means police have to spend time dealing with it, and other non-violent crimes, and are prevented the opportunity to focus on stuff that really matters. But of course when political agendas are forced onto people what would you expect?

 

I can just picture a cop investigating a rape or robbery or something, and being told to not bother because they need someone to deal with some minor drug possession offenses or something. I don't mean this literally, but I rather how I see the political aspect messing with things.

 

 

O

What type of profiling? I am completely AGAINST profiling that strips innocent people of basic civil rights for the sake of maybe catching a criminal, like the NYPD's stop and frisk BS. I am against the BS profiling that is Janet Napolitano's "see something say something" propaganda that does little more then get innocent people hassled, and legitimate concerns get ignored. Profiling based off little more than race or location without any actual prior investigation, observation, or studies is complete crap.

 

If it walks, talks, and looks like drug peddling a gangster, its probably a drug peddling gangster.

Stop and frisk is not profiling. Its using police experience and tactics to interdict before something happens. Its not BS. They don't just randomly grab people and search them like the media and aclu groups want you to think

If they are yelling "Get your yellow tops", then you are probably right. What does a drug peddling gangster look like btw?

Stop and frisk is not profiling. Its using police experience and tactics to interdict before something happens. Its not BS. They don't just randomly grab people and search them like the media and aclu groups want you to think

 

And would the law-abiding person who is stopped and frisked multiple times with no crime committed or subsequent arrest call it that? Or would they call it profiling?

Stop and frisk is not profiling. Its using police experience and tactics to interdict before something happens. Its not BS. They don't just randomly grab people and search them like the media and aclu groups want you to think

 

I've seen videos that would show otherwise.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoCRt3putLM&list=UUPI7sv8xxXT6pYFR6S2gM6w&index=2&feature=plcp

 

Oh yeah, and then there is the ruling from a federal judge that would agree...

 

 

What about the 'whistleblowers' who are/were actual members of the NYPD?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au922-6nNYU

If they are yelling "Get your yellow tops", then you are probably right. What does a drug peddling gangster look like btw?

 

Take a ride down to Newark. Their pretty easy to spot.

 

If your not for profiling, don't vote for me for president.

Im sure the videos show the entire scenario before the stop. You are actually going to.use the judges ruling argument. Judges rule all the time on stuff they have no real experience with. Gee..maybe like gun laws. Great argument there.

I should have figured you would cherry pick and use your standard 'No true Scotsman' fallacy, and ignore any and all evidence to the contrary. If videos of it actually happening, a federal judges ruling, audio of police telling their guys to do it, and actual police officers saying it happens isn't evidence, then nothing is. But as usual, you always ignore evidence that is contrary to your belief. So might as well just keep moving the goalposts. I'd never notice....

See, this is what police should be doing and not looking for seat belts. If they are going to violate your rights, it might as well be for a fast frisk. Bloomberg would be frisking everyone if he was a beat cop. And, I wonder if Rom will allow those new thugs he hired to freely frisk?

 

I think the Capital Police should frisk every congressman they see. How's that for profiling?

I should have figured you would cherry pick and use your standard 'No true Scotsman' fallacy, and ignore any and all evidence to the contrary. If videos of it actually happening, a federal judges ruling, audio of police telling their guys to do it, and actual police officers saying it happens isn't evidence, then nothing is. But as usual, you always ignore evidence that is contrary to your belief. So might as well just keep moving the goalposts. I'd never notice....

 

I dont care about proving my point to you. I know what works. If there are some missteps along the way then oh well. Nothings perfect. Think what you want i am not debating this

I dont care about proving my point to you. I know what works. If there are some missteps along the way then oh well. Nothings perfect. Think what you want i am not debating this

 

 

I wasn't debating that it doesn't work. I'm sure it has it's merits. I was stating I don't agree with it in practice, because of the profiling that happens. You then told me that it is not profiling, and that "They don't just randomly grab people and search". I proved that false. Instead of admitting that it does happen while still saying you support it (a position I disagree with but understand), you used various logical fallacies to discount my evidence. If you weren't debating you should not have bothered responding.

 

As I said, I can understand why people are okay with it. I am positive that it (stop and frisk, profiling) has worked. I am saying I value peoples civil liberties more then a few extra criminals getting arrested because either police are not allowed to, or don't care to do actual police work. I am also aware you do not care about anyones civil liberties. That is too bad.

 

It is a cop out that violates innocent peoples rights as a result. I reject that.

They don't just randomly grab people and search them like the media and aclu groups want you to think

 

Not sure where you work but they certainly do randomly grab people in NYC. I've seen it plenty of times and have had it done to me. And let's be honest, 95% of the arrests that have come out of this are complete bullsh*t like 420. These busts are rarely [i didn't say never] taking weapons or terrorists off the street.

 

Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics but...

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120605/new-york-city/stop-and-frisks-have-done-little-reduce-shootings-nypd-data-shows

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/stop_question_and_frisk_report.shtml - funny that NYPD only releases SPSS files - what average citizen would have a copy of SPSS laying around? lol, a**holes.

http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-practices

 

What exactly are they accomplishing besides the ever increasing annoyance of law abiding citizens?

Conditioning.

Not sure where you work but they certainly do randomly grab people in NYC. I've seen it plenty of times and have had it done to me. And let's be honest, 95% of the arrests that have come out of this are complete bullsh*t like 420. These busts are rarely [i didn't say never] taking weapons or terrorists off the street.

 

Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics but...

http://www.dnainfo.c...nypd-data-shows

http://www.nyc.gov/h...sk_report.shtml - funny that NYPD only releases SPSS files - what average citizen would have a copy of SPSS laying around? lol, a**holes.

http://www.nyclu.org...frisk-practices

 

What exactly are they accomplishing besides the ever increasing annoyance of law abiding citizens?

 

Conditioning both the police and the population