As an ardent 2A supporter, but living and working in an environment with many people who don't fully understand all the 2A concepts (but are usually willing to listen and constructively discuss), I often end up saying something like "gun control doesn't really address the fact that most gun crime is committed with illegal guns, and that additional gun control laws only harm law-abiding citizens, and don't address criminals with illegal guns."

 

But, I find myself wondering, how does a gun become illegal?

 

I know that many criminals use guns that they shouldn't own. I guess they buy them from other criminals who sell guns "on the black market." How did the guns get there at the very start?

 

I guess some of them come from times before stringent gun control, in the 60's and earlier, when you could just walk into a pawn shop and buy a gun, and then they were passed down, or sold, after that until finally a crime is committed with them.

 

But how about newer guns? How does a new gun get into the hands of criminals?

 

Is it all done with straw purchasers? Some (supposedly non-criminal) guy buys a few handguns at a legal store, passes the NICS check, and then sells them to criminals? Do they all come that way? I hate one gun a month, but if every state followed that rule, would the illegal gun supply drop to some lower level due to strangled straw purchases?

 

I guess some guns are stolen from lawful gun owners, but that argument would make me worried about increased requirements for safe / locked gun storage (which at its extremes makes self-defense harder, even in the home). What % of illegal guns are stolen?

 

What laws or processes could be strengthened which would decrease the number of "illegal" guns getting to criminals, without impacting our rights?

Most firearms used in crimes are stolen. Either from the manufacturer, from a dealer, or from an owner.

 

What can you do to stop it? Not much. In south africa, they had criminals rolling very large rocks onto patrol vehicles to kill or injure the officers, and take the sub guns they kept in the trunks.

 

 

 

 

Remember that, in many states, face-to-face transfers of handguns and long guns is legal without any sort of paper trail. Combine that with the fact that people aren't a criminal until they commit a crime, they can purchase said guns legally and everything is fine until a crime is committed with said guns. Of course, this leaves somewhat of a "loophole" in that even existing criminals can purchase guns face to face with such lax restrictions if the seller isn't privy to thier criminal status. I think in many states, the seller might just need to verify thier license/residency as any hard proof. They sometimes must ask the buyer if they are legally eligible to own the firearm but people can easily lie to skirt that. I've even seen folks willingly and knowingly buy/sell guns face to face out of state and over the border at those *ahem* places where buyers and sellers congregate to trade money for goods and that's a "F" violation.

 

Even the "straw purchase" is a somewhat vague and arbitrary description of a particular process, that, in other circles of commerce, isn't an illegal action. Whats silly is that it slots in right between the "Group purchase" and "Gifting" as a concept, separated by a hair-thin and dangerous to walk line of pure intention.

 

In general, its not as difficult as you think though. We here in NJ, being all on the up and up law-abiding responsible citizens, both you and I included, are subject to a papertrail and legal process for every transaction and so we aren't used to such lax treatment of firearm commerce.

Don't forget the cops who were caught in NY selling guns.

Of the Feds authorizing illegal sales.

But, I find myself wondering, how does a gun become illegal?

 

 

 

same way hollowpoints are legal one second, then suddenly illegal the next. same goes for body armor. if warn/used in commission of a crime, theyre suddenly illegal. yet you can spend every other second of your life wearing body armor and be 100% legal. you can buy and shoot hollowpoints all you want....but they become nothing more then an additional charge if used in a crime.

There's an endless amount of reasons. The Chinese were selling full-auto AK's to LA Gangs back in the early ninties. They were even offered RPGs and Tanks.

You need to seperate 2 different ideas here. What makes a gun illegal and what makes possession of a gun illegal. Awb pistol rifle shotgun and nfa all have different regulations making them legal or illegal. Then you have guns that are legal just illegal obtained. An illegally obtained gun doesnt not make it illegal it makes the action of owning it illegal. So guns don't just become illegal they need to fall outside of regulations to become illegal like being altered. A shot gun becomes illegal when I saw the barrel off below 18". But a prohibited person owning a shotgun doesn't make it illegal. People don't bother with this concept because it wouldn't sound as good in the news as "illegal gun" shoot and kills so and so. We the gun itself was legal just illegally obtained

How many people are charged with owning an illegal gun? How many people are charged with illegal possession of a gun? That should paint a better picture.

 

Now there are tons of ways people obtain them illegally. How about from a cop who serves for the nypd? Or did at least.

Rule by Decree- thats how they become illegal here in NJ.

It's pretty simple. It's just like a car.

 

If a car is stolen from you, and immediately recovered undamaged, it is an illegal car and must be destroyed.

 

If somebody owns a car but let's their registration lapse, or somebody drives your car without a license, the car becomes an illegal car, and must be destroyed.

 

If somebody uses a car to run a red light, or drives it drunk, it becomes an illegal car, and must be destroyed.