I agree with some of Griz, Breakfree CLP is hands down the most universal cleaner, lube, protectant on the market. It handles all tasks. I prefer it for cleaning and then i wipe everything close to dry and then I use a dry type cleaner that doesnt gather much dirt or sand like Militec. You should be cleaning your bore and chamber and bolt after EVERY use at the range. And after a decent clean job you will have residual solvent of CLP left on the gun in the parts that matter. You can than add additional light coat of a specific lubricant only formula like the one Griz speaks of or something like my recommendation of Militec. Bore and Chamber and bolt are most important parts to clean on an AR. You dont have to disassemble your entire bolt carrier group if your shooting say 100 rounds, but anything over that I certainly would. Also even if you just shoot 100-200 rounds and your gonna leave your gun sit for over 1-2 weeks until you shoot again then I would say take apart the entire bolt. You wanna store spot clean guns. Dont let carbon build up. Secondary parts to clean or at least lube are going to be other moving parts such as your charging handle, inside your buffer tube, etc. Carbon doesnt hit these spots as much but still of concern.

Yep, I'm certainly doing it wrong, its been over 1000 rounds since I last cleaned by gun, and its been in the safe for a couple of months, and before that it rained on it and I dried it with my tshirt. My gun must not be an AR cause it still works.

 

Seriously guys you are over cleaning and over obsessing. You are probably not hurting anything by doing so, but after a while you are just wasting your times. If you want to know how long a decent AR can run with minimal attention read his article about the Filthy 14 from Pat Rodgers. Yeah, you really shouldn't run an AR without cleaning for 30000+ rounds if your life depends on it, and he makes that pretty damn clear, but disassembling your bolt group after 100 rounds is a waste of time.

Nobody ever said the gun wouldn't run dirty or without cleaning for 3,000 rounds lol.. Just bc it still works does that mean you should work the piss out of it?I have shot well over 100,000 rounds of 5.56 is only reason I take a strong opinion on this subject and consider myself a worth source of knowledge on it. Have you served in the military? I have and that's where my discipline of good weapons maintenance comes from. And it's the proper way to keep a gun going with minimal chance of malfunction. That's the whole purpose of weapons maintenance. If it takes you more than 1-2 minutes to fully disassemble you AR then you should get back to weapon fundamentals before your next day at the range. 10 minutes u can disassemble the weapon and clean all the parts I spoke of. U should be giving your weapons love. One issue that is a fact and undebatable is that excessive built up carbon is harder to remove then fresh minimal carbon. A scientist or some chemical nerd will tell ya that one. If ur doing 100-200 rounds u dont need a full bolt breakdown I said, but over that then yea you do. Especially if the gun is going to sit for a while. If you have nice things you should appreciate them especially when their reliability depends on that appreciation. You don't go beating the balls off your car that gets you to work everyday do you? It could handle it, but is it necessary to gun it at every light and slam ur breaks when it won't get you to work any faster. I mean most of us did that when we were ignorant kids, but we're adults now and I think a lot of the civilian firearm community has too low of a standard on firearms safety and maintenance.

Boy you sure are right, I'll go polish all my guns right now, and I'll try to remember how to take them apart.

Nobody ever said the gun wouldn't run dirty or without cleaning for 3,000 rounds lol.. Just bc it still works does that mean you should work the piss out of it?I have shot well over 100,000 rounds of 5.56 is only reason I take a strong opinion on this subject and consider myself a worth source of knowledge on it. Have you served in the military? I have and that's where my discipline of good weapons maintenance comes from. And it's the proper way to keep a gun going with minimal chance of malfunction. That's the whole purpose of weapons maintenance. If it takes you more than 1-2 minutes to fully disassemble you AR then you should get back to weapon fundamentals before your next day at the range. 10 minutes u can disassemble the weapon and clean all the parts I spoke of. U should be giving your weapons love. One issue that is a fact and undebatable is that excessive built up carbon is harder to remove then fresh minimal carbon. A scientist or some chemical nerd will tell ya that one. If ur doing 100-200 rounds u dont need a full bolt breakdown I said, but over that then yea you do. Especially if the gun is going to sit for a while. If you have nice things you should appreciate them especially when their reliability depends on that appreciation. You don't go beating the balls off your car that gets you to work everyday do you? It could handle it, but is it necessary to gun it at every light and slam ur breaks when it won't get you to work any faster. I mean most of us did that when we were ignorant kids, but we're adults now and I think a lot of the civilian firearm community has too low of a standard on firearms safety and maintenance.

 

CAM -You are SOOOO>>> on the money here!!!!!!

 

This was an issue(among others) during Viet Nam. And when it comes to maintenance little has changed.

 

Inspect and clean and you will have a reliable weapon.

 

On the forum it is often touted how many rounds guys go through without cleaning. This shouldn't be.

 

What happened to the days when you would come in from the field beaten up and clean your weapon before you did anything else?

 

My feeling is that on a recreational basis fireams come too easy and are not maintained adaquately.

 

Now Kaiser who posts frequently, I know personally, broke his balls to get his hands on an AR. I bet his rifle gets love.

 

Just as an a side... Check the difference in accuracy with just a simple bore cleaning. I for one know it's significant.

On the forum it is often touted how many rounds guys go through without cleaning. This shouldn't be.

 

Why? Is this a belief system thing or something based on fact?

 

What happened to the days when you would come in from the field beaten up and clean your weapon before you did anything else?

 

Non-corrosive ammunition and modern firearms happened, that work better. We used to have change the oil every 1000miles and pack grease in the hubs, but better cars came along. For some reason we are stuck in the mentality that guns must always be spotless born from an era of crappy steels and crappier ammo.

 

My feeling is that on a recreational basis fireams come too easy and are not maintained adaquately.

 

So .. define adequately. Is the standard that it passes a white glove inspection or that it works? I don't worship my firearms, I don't sneak in the dark of night to fondle them, they are tools. I take care of my tools so they don't rust or break, but I don't polish them until the finish wears off.

 

Mind you, I don't care if anyone does obsess over their guns. They are your toys, you play with them anyway you want. I'm just opposed to the idea that if someone else doesn't maintain their tools the way you do they are doing it wrong.

 

You are not doing anyone any favors by convincing them that their guns will stop running and get them killed if they don't polish them whenever they use them. The AR platform catches enough grief from issues from 50 years ago, there is no need to perpetuate the myth that it is a fragile maintenance intensive platform when in all reality it isn't. The Vietnam story about maintenance needs to stop, when over and over the studies blamed it on crappy ammo with the wrong power not the gun itself.

Slip 2000 products get the job done - the carbon killer and then the EWL. A few drops of lube go in the FCG, then between the bolt & carrier and then wipe the carrier down with an oily rag. Done. Well....maybe wipe the inside of the upper with that oily rag too. Now you're done. Basically, anything that begins to develop a wear pattern (SHINY METAL) gets lubed.

 

If you're ripping your rifle apart and spending more than ten minutes cleaning it, you are wasting cleaning materials and time. Sure, go ahead and pop the bolt & carrier out and wipe them down - without taking them all apart. Maybe even run a patch down the barrel...maybe. That's all that is necessary for a good quality AR running good ammunition.

 

That doesn't mean that you OCD folks are wrong - you're just doing more than is necessary in the cleaning/lube department. If it makes you feel good, have a blast. I have better things to do

 

I will say this though - if you have a lesser quality AR that is constantly choking, maybe cleaning it all the time will lead to finding the problems. As some here may recall, my first AR was a Bushmaster. (I have since learned my lesson - AR's are not all the same). Anyhow, that Bushy ran ok until I got the round count up to about 3600 or so. It then began to have all kinds of malfs. I managed to work through them until I finally thought I had them all licked. Then one day it completely locked up on me. I ripped it apart on the line (had to mortar it!!) and began to wipe it down. I discovered that the bolt had cracked across the cam pin hole. That's what I get for buying a rifle from an outfit that doesn't MPI their parts. Lesson learned - no more Bushamsters for me. That gun had all kinds of problems that I found while cleaning it...loose gas key, loose castle nut, battered FCG, cracked bolt...jeebus, what a time I had replacing goofy parts. As time went on, I replaced the crappy Bushy parts with stuff from Bravo Co and Daniel Defense. That rifle is finally something I can depend on. So, if you have a crummy AR or are afflicted with OCD, I can see how constant cleaning could be a help, LMAO!!

 

As for why the Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines drill white glove cleaning procedures into recruits...that's easy. They want you to be able to disassemble, field strip and then reassemble the weapon rapidly in the field. Repetition builds than talent. Does anyone actually believe that their M16 really needed to be cleaned after their first trip to the range during basic? How many rounds are fired during each trip to the range? A couple of mags worth and that was it.

 

Beyond that, the white glove cleaning sessions are just time killers that the training cadre build into the days training schedule.

 

During basic, I saw M16A1's that had been cleaned & scrubbed so religiously that the receivers were silver, LMAO!!

Vlad is correct about the M16/Vietnam thing. At the last minute the bean counters decided to change the powder in order to reduce ammunition costs (gunpowder is all the same, right? LMAO!!). The powder was to blame, not the weapon.

Slip 2000 products get the job done - the carbon killer and then the EWL. A few drops of lube go in the FCG, then between the bolt & carrier and then wipe the carrier down with an oily rag. Done. Well....maybe wipe the inside of the upper with that oily rag too. Now you're done. Basically, anything that begins to develop a wear pattern (SHINY METAL) gets lubed.

 

FCG = Fire Control Group? Had to Google that one. Now just have to find it...

 

Yep - FCG = Fire Control Group. ....thems da triggur parts and dey bee inside the bottum haf uv da gun

 

Seriously though, crud loves to wind up down in there. Every now-n-then just wipe the area out with a couple of Q-Tips. I've also blasted the area out with few shots from a can of automotive brake & parts cleaner - like the CRC 'Brakleen' stuff. Then hit the moving parts with a few drops of whatever lube you eventually choose *coughSlip2000cough*. Works great.

 

Also, if you choose to use cheapo ammo that occasionally blows primers, the blown primers will wind up in the FCG and the gun will lock up. Sand will get in there even though you never go near the beach. The gun could sit in a case locked in a safe for 6 months and the next time you pull it out there will be a small rock in the FCG. It's like those times out in the garage when you're working on something intricate like the lawnmower's carb...that forgotten, open can of cruddy motor oil is on the bottom shelf...you drop a small, important carb part ... guess where it winds up? Yeah, the FCG area is the AR's open oil can - weird stuff gets in there by mysterious methods. Don't get all OCD about cleaning it, but keep an eye on it.

Hey Vlad I hope I didn't P!$$ on your leg. I mostly agree with all you've said. I just like firearms as the machines that they are and like to keep them in the ready/operating condition that makes them ultimately reliable.

 

As far as the 60's M16 thing the powder was definetly the issue as we know but, the rumor was that they were maintainance free as well.

 

WOW! has this thread wandered...

Yeah, despite being OP, I sort of checked out there towards the end. I never ended up getting a straight answer, except from someone who PMed me.

 

 

I guess that with regards to AR maintenance, putting a little too much, or too little oil won't cause the gun to explode into flames, and perhaps I shouldn't be as scared as I was that I need to have a precise amount of lubrication. I did find the diagrams wonderful though, they were very helpful.

Nah man, its all good, I just think we all need to be more careful when we recommend constant maintenance for a platform that doesn't need it. Think of it this way, I don't think anyone is going to tell me that a gun that runs dirty will not run when clean, but a gun that you always keep spotless may not actually run when exposed to stress.

 

To clarify, I'm not suggesting anyone neglects their firearms, I just think there is this idea out there that guns won't work if they are not spotless. My personal standard is that AR should be able to run at least 1000 rounds between cleanings and handguns should be around 2000 rounds. Most of the time I don't want to touch them by that point because my hands will for sure be black with crud, but everyone should push their firearms to the point of failure, know where that point is, and know what the gun feels like when it is approaching its failure point. Then maintain it at half that round count. At least thats my approach.

yes it has, but some good info here so lets not get too side-tracked...

 

Did my disassemble/clean last night. Felt good

Nah man, its all good, I just think we all need to be more careful when we recommend constant maintenance for a platform that doesn't need it. Think of it this way, I don't think anyone is going to tell me that a gun that runs dirty will not run when clean, but a gun that you always keep spotless may not actually run when exposed to stress.

 

To clarify, I'm not suggesting anyone neglects their firearms, I just think there is this idea out there that guns won't work if they are not spotless. My personal standard is that AR should be able to run at least 1000 rounds between cleanings and handguns should be around 2000 rounds. Most of the time I don't want to touch them by that point because my hands will for sure be black with crud, but everyone should push their firearms to the point of failure, know where that point is, and know what the gun feels like when it is approaching its failure point. Then maintain it at half that round count. At least thats my approach.

 

Well what happened was, I built my lower, but forgot to lube it at the time, and since I'm finally going to take it out shooting, I want to make sure I'm not grinding it up haha.

 

I tend to be forgetful like that, for instance, I didn't realize until I'd finished it that I didn't have any sights since it's a flattop.

You are not going to really break anything in the lower due to lack of lube. It may feel crummy, but you won't break it. You probably won't break the upper either, you'll most likely just wear out the finish on the insides a bit a quicker and possibly jam. I don't think you can break it though.

CAM -You are SOOOO>>> on the money here!!!!!!

 

This was an issue(among others) during Viet Nam. And when it comes to maintenance little has changed.

 

Well except the propellant, which is the source of most of the grunge in the action.

 

Inspect and clean and you will have a reliable weapon.

 

Well, unless you have a marginal weapon that you keep giving hte appearance of perfect functionality to by cleaning it constantly at short intervals. Take three guns I have. A .45 1911, my AR-15, and my desert eagle. If I follow cam's advice from day one, they all look equally functional and reliable. In reality the AR has a service interval of about 1000-1200 rounds. The 1911 is about 750 rounds, but only if the ammo being shot deposits carbon on the magazine feed lips at all (about 1500 rounds otherwise). The desert eagle is only good for about 300 rounds with most ammo, 350 or so ifyou cna find cleaner burrning .357.

 

There is value to knowing the limitations of your gear. I didn't find that out by cleaning it every 200 rounds.

 

On the forum it is often touted how many rounds guys go through without cleaning. This shouldn't be.

 

Why not?

 

What happened to the days when you would come in from the field beaten up and clean your weapon before you did anything else?

 

First, the range is way different than the field. Because it's not just wandering out in the woods to someplace nearby nobody will hassle you for shooting, the guns mostly don't come home with anything wrong with them other than having powder residue. Additionally, the cost of living has increased, we work more hours, have to travel farther to get to someplace to shoot, have the same, or more stuff to get done without as much family closely located to spread the load over, all while the relative cost of the firearm has dropped. I didn't buy my guns to stare at them and clean them.

 

My feeling is that on a recreational basis fireams come too easy and are not maintained adaquately.

 

Malfunctioning guns cost me scores and money. Reliability is important. They get the TLC they need, not the TLC that uncle sam beats into a bunch of people who could give two craps about the gear they don't pay for.

 

Now Kaiser who posts frequently, I know personally, broke his balls to get his hands on an AR. I bet his rifle gets love.

 

He also doesn't shoot much. Him being anal about it costs him a few hours a year. ME being anal about it will cost me a hell of a lot more time.

 

Just as an a side... Check the difference in accuracy with just a simple bore cleaning. I for one know it's significant.

 

I have. With pistols.. absolutely nothing unless leading has built up. With rifles, it depends on the rifle and the bullet. With something jacketed in soft copper alloy, or all copper bullets, shot through something with relatively aggressive lands and grooves, yes it makes a noticeable difference. With harder jackets, or less aggressive rifling, not nearly as much.

 

 

I will advocate what I think works, and what I do for myself:

 

When you get a gun, clean it and lube it per the owners manual. Shoot it without cleaning until it experiences feeding, ejecting, or other failures while keeping track of the round count. Log what failed first and the interval and the characteristics of the ammo being used. Clean and service the weapon at intervals less than that. Sometimes I wimp out and declare the service interval to be "too nasty to handle" and call that the service interval. I will after that point experiment with just providing tlc to the parts that had issues first and see how far that gets me.

 

Beyond that, whenever they get wet, they get dried as soon as I get home. If they get anything corrosive on them, They get it cleaned off. Corrosive ammo means a good cleaning. They got all sweated on while out shooting in the summertime, they get a wipedown and coating of oil.

 

As for the right way to lube an AR, there are a BUNCH of effective ways. The only thing they have in common is that if metal rubs on metal, you WILL need some degree of lube there to reduce wear. IMO, running it sopping wet is the laziest and although effective in terms of preventing wear, is definitely NOT the most effective in terms of reliability. Case in point, dusty environments. Sopping wet goes from a solution to a problem to enhancing a problem. In a mildly dusty environment it might get you to that 300 round mark, but it might not get you to 400. If you clean it like you have OCD, you don't know this.

 

Once again. Uncle sam deals with minions who don't know, don't want to know, but you can beat a minimal level of behavior into them long term by asking for way more than necessary unpleasantly int he short term. However, uncle sam pays people to figure out the stuff I have to figure out for myself as mentioned above.