Let's do a little experimenting.

 

Take some 7.62x25mm tokarev cases, stuff them full of Alliant Blue Dot and cap them off with some Hornady .308 dia, 110 gr V-Max bullets and shoot them out of an AR15 chambered in 7.62 Tokarev. Piece of cake.

 

I call it, 300 MUMBLE! Why Mumble you ask? Well, its pretty quiet and while its still supersonic, it doesn't make quite the racket that 223 does. Also, like a mumble, there is nothing really meaningful going on here (haters, this one is for you). LOL

 

To start on this, we first need to study teh interior ballistics of this combination. The first step is to determine the max OAL the rifles' chamber could take with this bullet and then from there, run various numbers through QuickLOAD software to come up with a list of powders, pressures and capacities that we can work with. Pouring through the results, it looks like Blue Dot (traditionally a Magnum handgun powder) would give a good case fill for this bullets' seating depth, clean and efficient full burn in the 16" barrel and generate good velocities while keeping chamber pressure well under SAAMI max; plus its one i have on the shelf so Blue Dot it is!

 

Let's load some up in some various powder charges from a good LOW starting point, all the way up to some near max loads. Now since this rifle is a direct impingement AR15, it has a fully supported chamber and is engineered to handle chamber pressures well in excess of the puny 35,000 PSI MAX SAAMI value for 7.62 Tok so loading them hot (but not exceeding) certainly won't stress the gun. It will possibly stress the brass through overpressure and overgassing/early unlocking if loaded too hot so its important to always keep this in mind when experimenting.

 

Here's the finished product. Its a little longer than a normal 7.62 tokarev pistol round so it wont fit in a magazine designed for that. It does fit in a traditional AR15 mag, so stack a few in a PMag and lock and load!

 

 

 

Ok, so how does it shoot? Not bad, Obama!

 

I'm clocking velocities in the 1500-1600 FPS range from a 16" barrel and found some loads that group pretty good at 50 and 100 yards (all i had to work with at this local range).

 

Here's a nice group at 50.

 

 

And another one at 100 (ignore that flyer).

 

 

All in all, a fun experiment. My best groups were actually with lighter charges which is good because the heavier ones were showing some signs of early unlocking while the case was still obturated. I'll be curious to try some out at longer ranges and also some heavier 150 or 168 grain loads.

What are you shooting this from??? Pics?? Please?

Just a little pistol caliber carbine AR15 upper.

 

Science makes my head hurt...I appreciate the ingenuity and work that went into all that.

John, you're like a crazy mad scientiest! pretty cool.

 

 

But im more impressed you were able to pick some tokerev brass of the ground that wasnt split !

Alec, i wish! I had to buy some fresh, expensive starline brass to experiment with this. All that surplus ammo brass is berdan primed and useless.

Science makes my head hurt...

Me too.

 

I like that gun however.

 

Gimmee....

Knockdown steel legal ?

 

ha!

Wicked cool! For short range work that is a nice set up. I'd imagine minimal recoil and really fast follow ups.

 

FWIW - About 10 years ago when I had my AR10-A4, I loaded up some batches of Nosler 125 BT's, reduced loads around 2000fps IIRC using H4895 and that was a nice round. Made for a really, really nice CQB round.

Pretty cool experiment Jon! Neat little mini-thumper concept there.

very impressive, hooray science!

You can be the Bill Nye of reloading

Man, you are a true reloader. I hate converting my press to a different caliber.

 

Sweet AR. I'm surprised those rounds work in a standard AR mag as they look

so much fatter and shorter than a 223 round.

experimenting with the Hornady Lock N Load press is easy due to the quick change nature of the die system. although I did use the progressive press for priming, powder was dispensed using a trickler for precise metering and a single stage was used to seat the bullets.

Sounds like me...I have a Lee 4 stage and tend to only use two 'slots' at a time. Using those discs really speeds up changing calibers. I still prefer to hand prime and use my precision powder measures and do a pour in instead of relying on the press's measurements. I tend to size and de-prime in bulk. Then inspect, measure, sort and prime while watching TV.

Sounds like me...I have a Lee 4 stage and tend to only use two 'slots' at a time. Using those discs really speeds up changing calibers. I still prefer to hand prime and use my precision powder measures and do a pour in instead of relying on the press's measurements. I tend to size and de-prime in bulk. Then inspect, measure, sort and prime while watching TV.

 

I got the discs if we're talking bout the same thing where you just twist out the whole thing and put in a new caliber.

 

Problem is when you go from 9mm to 45 or vice versa the 45 uses a totally new carrier assembly, case feeder, and

the z bar has to be adjusted. Not to mention I only have one powder dispenser so that has to get removed and put

on the new set up and calibrated. They are not too expensive so I thought about just getting a whole new press for

each caliber. Yes, I am that lazy.

The Wildcat cartridge man of NJGF!!!

 

Very cool

 

Njgf exclusive caliber?? Wish I had the time and patience to reload

Fastest, most accurate powder measure that I have found. On sale around $25. I have three that I have pre-set for my most standard loads. 223, 308, 45. IIRC the first one I bought was around $18. Stick, ball, disc powders all dispense fast with out any crunching.

 

 

http://leeprecision.com/perfect-powder-measure.html

Wojo, that lee measure has some really cool features, namely the micrometer adjust with the vmd chart system. That chart would definitely make for quick setup of the charge throw. Do you find it accurate? Its certainly cheap enough on midway so it's hard to go wrong there.

JonF - I don't think you will be sorrry. I'll buy it off you if you don't like it. I have one dialed in for my match loads (Varget Stick) and have it marked for RamShot Tac for mass reloading of 223's. It is very, very consistant and fast. I would say if you are shooting, your technique, wind, bullet weight deviation, primer hole uniformity, ...would be more of a weighing factor if a bullet is the largest of the group.

 

Mind you, your techinque is important moving the crank. If you're banging on each stop to and fro, the powder is going to change volume from bouncing around. If your are normally consistant with your gross motor-skills and gentle, not banging it, your are GTG. I check the charge weights every 20 rounds and especially when I top off again for a QC.

 

A little trick, re-fill the hopper before it runs out. The downward weight of the extra powder keeps it flowing more consistent down the funnel. Also, I wipe the inside of this (and other measures) with a dryer sheet to eliminate static cling that powder can stick to. Damn plastics.

 

FWIW - For my match ammo, I weigh all my cases and bullets and sort into them into weight groups before the powder. I then do a final weight in for a QC and final batching. I rarely see any meaningful deviations once I start cranking out rounds. And even then, that one goes right into the target pile.

JonF - I don't think you will be sorrry. I'll buy it off you if you don't like it. I have one dialed in for my match loads (Varget Stick) and have it marked for RamShot Tac for mass reloading of 223's. It is very, very consistant and fast. I would say if you are shooting, your technique, wind, bullet weight deviation, primer hole uniformity, ...would be more of a weighing factor if a bullet is the largest of the group.

 

Mind you, your techinque is important moving the crank. If you're banging on each stop to and fro, the powder is going to change volume from bouncing around. If your are normally consistant with your gross motor-skills and gentle, not banging it, your are GTG. I check the charge weights every 20 rounds and especially when I top off again for a QC.

 

A little trick, re-fill the hopper before it runs out. The downward weight of the extra powder keeps it flowing more consistent down the funnel. Also, I wipe the inside of this (and other measures) with a dryer sheet to eliminate static cling that powder can stick to. Damn plastics.

 

FWIW - For my match ammo, I weigh all my cases and bullets and sort into them into weight groups before the powder. I then do a final weight in for a QC and final batching. I rarely see any meaningful deviations once I start cranking out rounds. And even then, that one goes right into the target pile.

 

Good advice that..the worst powder i've had for static is Titegroup..THAT is some really sticky stuff

I have one of those measures that you can have Wojo. I hate it, despise it, and would rather throw it in the fire and watch it make pretty colors and noxious smoke than ever use it again...