Just as the thread title reads. Inside the newest issue of Fron Sight magazine ( if u are a uspsa member u should be getting one if u don't already have it) there is an article about the possibility of adding a classification system to steel shooting, much like there is in USPSA. Competing within your class and division. I just want to know your thoughts about this. I'm a little mixed on it. Great that it offers more opportunity to win in class but may also make u comfortable. I'm pretty ok with competing against the best in the sport and not just the best in class... Idk. Your thoughts?

I say why not. Works for idpa and uspsa. Why not steel. Gives mpre people a shot to win

I think that it could work, BUT it would create a whole lot more work as far as score-keeping goes.

 

And then there's the usual problem of an un-ranked Shooter having to be placed into the "Master Class" that they'll NEVER win.

 

You really only compete against yourself anyway, as only a handful of speed-demons win the Matches. All mere mortals can hope for is a pay-out via the Lewis System, where you either have to be good or bad enough to win, lol!

Having been one of the guys behind the big annual world class steel match, having a classification system would have made life easier.

 

Heck, scoring and Lewis system was such a PITA that we had someone write scoring software that scsa was licensing from us. Prior to uspsa buying up the steel challenge and making nice with everyone, there was a real effort to form a competing organization. One of the main things they were going to do was create well defined divisions and classifications.

 

Lots of folks put in a lot of time, energy, and money trying to fix the mess steel challenge had become. What they were trying to get done wasn't to make things harder.

 

 

Having been one of the guys behind the big annual world class steel match, having a classification system would have made life easier.

 

Heck, scoring and Lewis system was such a PITA that we had someone write scoring software that scsa was licensing from us. Prior to uspsa buying up the steel challenge and making nice with everyone, there was a real effort to form a competing organization. One of the main things they were going to do was create well defined divisions and classifications.

 

Lots of folks put in a lot of time, energy, and money trying to fix the mess steel challenge had become. What they were trying to get done wasn't to make things harder.

 

Now I remember what all you volunteers went through! And the software fix. Sorry I was a little "off the mark" with my incomplete response above. Post-fix everything seemed fine as I recall, and the results were posted really quick, along with the Lewis winners too. Lots of hard work by all involved to be sure!

What exactly does this mean and how would they do it? In USPSA we have different divisions based on the gun you use and different classifications based on the gun you are using and how well you score, time and quality of hits (for lack of a better term).

 

In steel there is no "scoring", IE: you either hit the plate or you didn't, no A, B, C, D hits.

 

Will they now have Major and Minor? Would I have two classifications if I chose to use my 610 revolver, shooting .40 S&W loaded as minor and then shooting .40 S&W loaded as major, or using 10mm as major?

 

In a way it could make things more fair, if someone is using wad cutters in a 8 3/8 barrel (like I would ever do that........) and someone else is shooting something hotter like a regular .45 ACP load, they would be in different classes.

 

I really don't care, but the people taking care of the scoring may, it will be more work for them. Right now they can toss all the revolver people with iron sights in the same class. Now they may have to split them up depending on the ammo being used. Would they need to chrono stuff now?

My only gripe with steel (and I'm sure many will disagree) is if you use an open holster with a stock gun you're not considered an open shooter class shooter.

In my opinion I feel your holster should bump you up to open much like how in USPSA if you have a DOH or open holster you are bumped to limited even if you

have a production gun. This should especially matter in steel because the draw is a HUGE part of your time.

 

As for classes I think it would make things pretty interesting, but yes scoring could get complicated. I always look at the time ranges I am closest to anyway and

compare myself against that.

My only gripe with steel (and I'm sure many will disagree) is if you use an open holster with a stock gun you're not considered an open shooter class shooter.

In my opinion I feel your holster should bump you up to open much like how in USPSA if you have a DOH or open holster you are bumped to limited even if you

have a production gun. This should especially matter in steel because the draw is a HUGE part of your time.

 

As for classes I think it would make things pretty interesting, but yes scoring could get complicated. I always look at the time ranges I am closest to anyway and

compare myself against that.

 

Doh holsters are legal in Production.

Good point with the open holster Zoid.. I never thought about that... hmm Now i want an open holster for steel.. All i have to do now it shoot accurately and quick enough for it to matter. lol but good point dude.

Good point with the open holster Zoid.. I never thought about that... hmm Now i want an open holster for steel.. All i have to do now it shoot accurately and quick enough for it to matter. lol but good point dude.

 

With practice the difference in draw times with kydex vs a race holster is almost nill. The retention you get with a kydex holster is a benefit in my opinion because if you bump that race holster your gun is hitting the ground. DQ, game over.

With practice the difference in draw times with kydex vs a race holster is almost nill. The retention you get with a kydex holster is a benefit in my opinion because if you bump that race holster your gun is hitting the ground. DQ, game over.

 

I know a guy that happened to and heard it's somewhat of a common DQ.

 

I agree that the difference can be minimal given enough practice. I'm just

saying if they will bump your division in USPSA where the draw time is less

significant than steel why not do it in steel where time is everything?

 

Thanks for the correction on the DOH Holster. Knowing this I may just use

that set up for production.

I think they should leave it the way it is.

 

My friends and I shoot the static steel comps regularly with duty guns, production full power ammo, and level III duty holsters (Safariland ALS/SLS) and we do fairly well. (1.5-2 seconds from beep to first hit is acceptable from a level III holster in my book, some of us can get it down around 1.25 sometimes)

 

We know we won't beat J.J. and the like but it is fun to compete with them. The big draw for us is to have fun and to try and shoot better than we did last time.

 

Hell, I know its not pistol, but I took first in "carbine open" in the big match last June and had never shot that class before.

What was being discussed was basically a bunch of divisions. Open, open revolver, limited, limited revolver, cowboy (single action revolver reproductions), compact (anything with a barrel 3.5" or less), rimfire open and rimfire limited.

 

Nobody was talking about limiting gear.

 

There was lots of argument about how to develop classes though. If you pick some core steel challenge stages, declare say the top five times as 100%, you then get some big gaps. The reality with uspsa is that the REALLY good guys are getting over 100% on the classifiers, and the 100% level is based off GMs shooting a novel stage they haven't practiced for. None of the core SC stages are novel to anyone, and the top times are the result of top guy practicing the snot out of those specific scenarios. So then the arguing begins about where 100% is. Thus no classification to date.

Well, if you are going to do it, how about a "Tactical" division? Duty Grade pistol, weapon mounted light, at least a level 2 holster (Safariland ALS/SLA) on a thigh-rig

Mixed on if I like it or not, won't change on how much I just love shooting a target and having it make noise, well when I hit them that is.. lol

Well, if you are going to do it, how about a "Tactical" division? Duty Grade pistol, weapon mounted light, at least a level 2 holster (Safariland ALS/SLA) on a thigh-rig

 

I'm not doing anything other than summarizing the issues that existed with this when I punched out of dealing with that kind of stuff. Pretty much everyone regards it as drag racing with guns, and nobody was interested in telling people what they could run, just trying to break things up enough to make paying out simpler. Pretty much the only realistic motivation to wanting to police people's gear would be if sponsor participation was on the line. At best, if they mirror USPSA, there might be a LEO grouping that would permit duty gear.

 

The reality is if you REALLY care, join SCSA, and contact the people running it as a member to put in your $0.02. Until you join, you are just some dude who happens to show up. Which is also a part of the drive for classification. They want people to join so they can go about the business of being more organized.

 

I've been more involved than I would like in running largish steel and USPSA matches. The USPSA matches have more logistics to hammer away at to being able to shoot, but steel challenge is a huge PITA wrangling the large mass of unaffiliated people, people trying to game your payouts, people of known if any skill, etc. USPSA is a lot of work, but once the first shot is fired, it is all downhill form there. Steel is herding cats and can go pear shaped on you until the last payout check is written, sometimes even after that.

Raz-0

 

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that YOU should do anything. Kind of a "Royal" you was intended with my ramblings. My apologies brother.

 

Personally, I am fine with the system the way it is.

 

ETA: As a Semi-regular steel shooter allow me to say Thank You for all the work you do so I can blast some steel every now and then.

Raz-0

 

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that YOU should do anything. Kind of a "Royal" you was intended with my ramblings. My apologies brother.

 

Personally, I am fine with the system the way it is.

 

ETA: As a Semi-regular steel shooter allow me to say Thank You for all the work you do so I can blast some steel every now and then.

 

No problem. I was never playing the politics, but was in a position to debug and trouble shoot ideas. I'm not any longer. Just didn't want anyone thinking anyone outside the uspsa/scsa adminosphere is in charge this go round.

 

None of the logistical problems have changed though.