Quick question... I understand all out-of-state transfers are required to be done through FFLs... but if a relative in PA buys a long-gun, and then wants to give it to me, how would this go down? Would we need to go to a local shop/FFL and have them be the middleman?

 

Here's the story behind my question...

 

I've got my eye on a few mil-surp bolt-actions on online auction websites, and feel the urge to get them ASAP. The possibility of new gun control is worrying me and I need to get my hands on something. These rifles are pretty safe from any upcoming legislation, but I can imagine their availability would drop and prices would rise in time. However, my local PD told me that a lack of firearms unit will delay my FID application until the April of 2013... which is utter non-sense. I have a clean record and I'm sure I'll get the FID in time, but I feel like I must get a hold of these great rifles NOW.

 

So, I'm considering asking a relative in PA to get them and hold them in his possession until I get my FID (or move to PA). Then, I'd want to legally transfer them somehow into my possession later on. Any thoughts, gentlemen?

PK90 said:

2. Long gun purchases by

....A. NJ resident from

........(1) NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

........(2) NJ resident = face to face with a FPID, COE with Photo ID suggested

........(3) Out-of-state dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

........(4) Out-of-state resident = must be transferred through

............a. NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID or

............b. Out-of-state dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

....B. Non-resident from

........(1) NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

........(2) NJ resident = must be transferred through

............a. NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID or

............b. Out-of-state dealer = consult buyer's home state laws

 

 

 

My first thought is technically, I believe what you are describing is a straw purchase.

Move to pa, problem solved

No, I don't think it's a straw purchase.

 

With what you posted, what I believe I'd be doing is A. - (4) - b. NJ resident from... Out-of-state resident = must be transferred through... Out-of-state dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID.

 

So if my relative possesses these rifles and then wants to transfer them over to me, and I'm still a NJ citizen, we'd need to go to an FFL.

 

By doing this, all I'd have to do is contact the FFL who's willing to transfer, show up at the place with my relative, pay the fees and bring FID/ID and etc., and then walk out as a new rifle-owner?

I'll be interested to hear what Paul (PK90) has to say, but here's my take. I believe the 4473 asks the purchaser if they are purchasing the guns for themselves. To answer yes to this with the foreknowledge that you are purchasing them only to transfer them to you, would be a lie and thus a straw purchase. Also at this point in time you are a prohibited person, under NJ law, since you do not have your FPID and while you assume you qualify, stranger things have happened.

 

I added the last because I believe the true definition of a straw purchase is someone, who is not a prohibited person, purchasing for a person that is prohibited - which at this point in time you are.

 

Paul?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Damn Pizza Bob, I did not see it like that... ah, the laws got me. I guess I'll just order them myself once my FID arrives in a few months.

Damn Pizza Bob, I did not see it like that... ah, the laws got me. I guess I'll just order them myself once my FID arrives in a few months.

OR, if you can find an FFL that will hold them until you get your FID, you could order them now. Ask them first.

IANAL. It;'s perfectly legal for a person who buys a rifle in PA with intent to make a gift of it to someone in NJ, so long as the rifle is legal in NJ and the NJ recipient has an NJ FPID card. He could buy it and keep it in his safe, and once the NJ person has their FPID, could send it to an NJ FFL for pickup by NJ person. Present card, pass NICS, pay whatever fees, take home.

 

My read is that a straw purchase occurs if the final recipient is a prohibited person or otherwise not compliant with state law (no FPID, etc).

IANAL. It;'s perfectly legal for a person who buys a rifle in PA with intent to make a gift of it to someone in NJ, so long as the rifle is legal in NJ and the NJ recipient has an NJ FPID card. He could buy it and keep it in his safe, and once the NJ person has their FPID, could send it to an NJ FFL for pickup by NJ person. Present card, pass NICS, pay whatever fees, take home.

 

My read is that a straw purchase occurs if the final recipient is a prohibited person or otherwise not compliant with state law (no FPID, etc).

 

That is the way it was always looked at..in fact at one time it was actually QUITE common for someone under 18 to get his handguns that way since for years 18+ could purchase handguns from another private party but could NOT transfer from an FFL. Person A who is 18 gets his p2p, person B who is over 21 gets HIS P2p...both go to the FFIl person B buys the handgun, and they do the paperwork right there in front of the FFL who sends out the forms together. Easy Peasy...COMMON Practice. However, Everyone who did things that way was actually Violating Federal Law, and we didnt realize it at the time.. it was always ASSUMED that to be a Straw Purchase it had to involve a prohibited person..and in fact this was reinfoced by ATF at that time. Since then, however they have gone the other way, and gone with the strict LETTER of the Definition of Straw Purchase, as opposed to the Intent

Just pay for it in full an pick it up when you get your I'd card. My FFL does it.

Just pay for it in full an pick it up when you get your I'd card. My FFL does it.

 

Just an update here. I did exactly what Njbanshee said. I ordered my beautiful mil-surp from gunbroker and an FFL I spoke to was cool enough to hold it until I get my FID. I warned him that it might be months, and told me not to worry, and that I don't need to pay storage fees. Nice people still exist in this state! haha

Transfer of long gun between residents of PA and NJ requires FFL in either state to perform the transfer. The FFL will follow NJ laws in either state, so you will need FID.  Family relationship does not matter.

 

If you move to PA, he can hand it to you and say "Yours."  No permit or license or FFL required.