Don't know what these are and no idea where to begin.

 

Seem like a set of old dueling pistols. No identification on them.

 

 

 

 

Hard to get an idea of the size of these pistols as there is nothing for scale reference. Also appx what bore diameter are they? On Antiques Roadshow, just this last week, they had a similar appearing pistol - although it was large, and as I said, I can't tell what these are. It was identified as a Howdah pistol - a type of firearm, not a brand. Used in India when hunting tigers from the backs of elephants. The gondola that is mounted to the elephants back, in which the hunters rode/hunted, is called a howdah. If a tiger was only wounded with a rifle (single shot percussion), they would attempt to climb up the side of the elephant to get at their antagonizers - this was when the howdah pistol was brought into play. They were large bore, double barreled.

 

Of course that may not be what you have at all. Fairly certain they aren't dueling pistols - as they were single barreled, but the fact that they are a pair is still kind of odd.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Pizza Bob has it correct. You are sitting on a pair of Howdah pistols. They are not a matched set as various differences can be discerned. Quite possibly the same maker though. Wish the photos were more clear to discern the detail of the mechanism and the grips as those will be first clues to period and the make. Howdah designs were made in India, but also all over the European block as they were adopted for military use for devistating up-close encounters in addition to fending off tigers! Always fun tracking down the unusual firearm!

I'll see if I can get better photo's. My digital camera sucks.

 

The other question...does a purchaser need permits to acquire these?

 

I have no use for them and suspect they have some value to a collector.

The other question...does a purchaser need permits to acquire these?

 

My take on this is yes - everything that applies to modern handguns applies here. Under NJ law these guns meet the following definitions: Firearm (2C:39-1,f) / Handgun (2C:39-1,k) / Weapon (2C:39-1,r) / Antique Handgun (2C:39-1,aa)

 

There are no exceptions that apply to antique handguns otherr than that a holder of a C&R license does not have to abide by OGAM.

 

I am not sure if a C&R license holder has any special purchase exemptions in this state in regard to purchasing C&R handguns. Maybe a C&R license holder can enlighten us there.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

IANAL

I could be COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THIS, but I think I'm looking at a pair of center fire breach-loading double-barrel sawed-off shotguns????? Antiques to be sure, and the fuzzy close-ups are of no help. In the Howdas that I've seen for sale at Cabela's, NONE of them use a break-action with internal hammers. Reproduction Howdas use percussion ignition, permanently fixed breach-plugs (just like a percussion rifle or single-shot percussion pistol), and exposed "ears" (hammers) that have to strike a percussion cap on a nipple. The break-action feature and the missing exposed hammers scare me...I would check for firing pins on the face of the lock box!

 

Just sayin'......

 

Dave

Dave:

 

These do appear to have an external hammer - singular. Do you suppose both barrels fired with one pull of the trigger? The notch at the twelve o'clock position at the rear of the chambers is also puzzling - pin-fire maybe? Definitely need better pictures. An idea of overall size and bore size of the guns. And a listing - or better yet a picture - of any marks on the guns. Don't forget to look on the underside of the barrel with the gun open.

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

Adios,

 

Bob

Nope, plenty of Howdah's fit these exactly. There are so many variations it's unreal! This one looks textbook Belgium, but the pictures are rough!

yeah guys...I'm really sorry about the photo's.

 

I believe they are rim fire of some sort. Each hammer is conrolled by it's own trigger, and the barrels are notched to accept the notched hammers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I ran the photos through some clean up routines in Photoshop, and I'm positive you have Belgiums there! Specifically, I think we're looking at a pair of pinfire boxlocks with the triggers that drop out upon cocking, and commonly lumped into the overall group of Howdahs. For a short while, I had acquired a 15mm in an estate sale and am digging around for photos of it now! If the barrels measure 12mm or 15mm, I think it's a slam dunk on a Belgium style.

YES, YES, YES! Much better photos, and those are absolutely Belgium style Howdahs that are really considered pinfire boxlock pistols! The one I had was almost exactly like the one with the cut hash pattern on the frame. The huge bummer, and what would allow superior dating and value evaluation, is the lack of maker's marks and proofs! Those are nearly always found on the breech end of the barrel.

This got the blood flowing, so I called up the fellow I sold the one I had too (actually a business acquaintence) and he sent me a link to a picture of it where he modeled it with a couple boxes of correct ammo:

 

 

It's a bit more finely crafted with sharp carving with maker's marks and proofs so yours might be copies produced by a local gunsmith of the period.

The devil is in the details, and I'm glad the fuzzy pictures were all that was wrong with this thread. Pin-fired rounds aren't "readily available", so it's just a collectible antique instead of a "destructive device".

 

The Italian breech-plugged percussion replicas at Cabela's are made by Davide Pedersoli.

 

Interesting history lesson indeed!

 

Dave

Thanks guys, I appreciate the replies!

 

I'll get cracking on some history, and perhaps a value.