HI Gang,

 

I remember seing one but i can't find one now.

 

need cheat sheet summary of proposed laws and talking points...

Go to NJ2AS web site OR the ANJR&PC web site. Infor is on both.

link please, i can see the bills, but I need talking points.

Here are two letter I wrote on my least favorite bills. Not exactly "talking points." What's the urgent need?

 

I am writing to express my opposition to bill A3772, which would require a new design for firearm purchase ID cards (FPIC.) The bill would require that all current holders reapply for the new card within two years of passage and then reapply every five years thereafter.

 

Under the current law, the card is valid unless a holder becomes ineligible, in which case it must be surrendered. Even if it is illegally kept, the card number is flagged, so that if it is used in an attempted purchase, the card will not match a valid card at the time of the point of sale instant background check, and the purchaser will be arrested. For the same reason, a counterfeit card is useless, since the name and number will not match a valid card in the database. Using someone else’s card also doesn’t work, as a matching photo ID must be presented with the card. I am unaware of any case in which a counterfeit card has been used. The current system works perfectly.

 

Police departments across the state are heavily strained in keeping up with just the initial applications and are usually unable to process applications within the statutorily mandated 30 day time frame.

 

Under the current bill, a "renewal" has all the requirements of a full application. With approximately 1 million FPIC holders in the state, the constant reapplications will be a logistical and financial nightmare, both for police departments and individual FPIC holders.

 

This bill is more about burnishing the anti-violence credentials of the sponsors than about improving public safety. This is inadequate reason to burden a million lawful gun owners. If you have any questions or would like to discuss further, please feel free to email me at

I would like to express my objection to the committee substitute for Assembly bills A3645, A3646, A3666, and A3750, which would require all ammunition sales to occur face to face. This consolidated bill is overly restrictive to legitimate buyers, while providing no impediment to illegal purchases.

 

In fact, online purchases create GREATER accountability than face to face. In addition to an ID, the user must provide a credit card and physical address. If this is not enough, an FPIC could also be required, as many vendors voluntarily do. As a model piece of legislation, here is what Illinois, a very restrictive state, mandates.

 

(430 ILCS 65/3) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑3)

Sec. 3.

 

(b‑5) Any resident may purchase ammunition from a person outside of Illinois. Any resident purchasing ammunition outside the State of Illinois must provide the seller with a copy of his or her valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and either his or her Illinois driver's license or Illinois State Identification Card prior to the shipment of the ammunition. The ammunition may be shipped only to an address on either of those 2 documents.

 

Eliminating online sales imposes a significant burden. There are thousands of types of ammunition, most of which are not available in physical stores. With a dwindling number of gun stores, driving to one can entail a very long trip, and this can’t even be combined with a trip to the range, because any deviation between home and the range, even to buy ammunition, makes the driver a felon.

 

Let’s be realistic, anyone with the wherewithal to obtain an illegal gun probably obtained a side order of ammunition to go with that gun. And rather than navigate through the four levels of security outlined above, it would be much easier to just make a quick drive over to PA or DE, walk into a gun store, and pay cash, without showing ID.

 

I know that in this environment, it is politically expedient to pass laws imposing arbitrary hardship on gun owners. I would ask that ideally, this bill would be seen for what it is and stopped. If such symbolic legislation must go through, please at least try to minimize the unnecessary burden on lawful citizens.

Here's what I posted elsewhere on the mag limits

 

I think the two strongest arguments are:

1) common use test: a 10 round limit bans most *standard* so by definition firearm configurations

2) a premeditated bad guy can carry a satchel full of magazines and extra guns in a bag. if you've responsibly stored your gun in a bedside safe, your're going to be going to reach over, pull out your (1) gun, and have to face the guy.

3) "highly trained" NYPD have a 6.5% hit rate under pressure. That means that with a 10 round limit, there's a 50% chance you're not going to get even one hit.

• Quote
  
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Here's mine re: A3687

 

 

A3687

Amends N.J.S.2C:58-3

Amends section 1 to add:

c.9 To any person named on the consolidated Terrorist Watchlist maintained by Terrorist Screening Center administed (typo in bill) by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

 

Relevant sections of the code:

f. (removed for clarity) A firearms purchaser identification card shall be valid until such time as the holder becomes subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of this section, whereupon the card shall be void and shall be returned within five days by the holder to the superintendent, who shall then advise the licensing authority. Failure of the holder to return the firearms purchaser identification card to the superintendent within the said five days shall be an offense under subsection a. of N.J.S.2C:39-10. (Removed for clarity)

STATEMENT

This bill would disqualify a person named on the consolidated Terrorist Watchlist maintained by the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Terrorist Screening Center from being issued either a firearm’s identification card or a permit to purchase a handgun.

Point one:

As per the Department of Homeland Security website: “The U.S. government does not reveal whether a particular person (emphasis added) is on or not on a watchlist.” Given this information, it is impossible to check if a person who is applying for a firearms ID card or purchasing a firearm is or is not named on the list.

Point two:

The Terrorist Watch list has 2 sections, the “No Fly” list, made of people who may not board and airplane. Secondly, the “Selectee” list, made of people who must undergo further screening before boarding aircraft.

The bill does not designate which list is to be used for reference. While the No Fly list is more likely to be populated with “known terrorists”, the Selectee list is populated with names. If your name matches one of these you are likely to be included.

Since the US Government does not share whether a particular person is on the list or not, many people are on the list simply by name, with no way of identifying a particular person. I.e. John Adams is on the list, so any and all John Adams fall under the auspices of this law, since you cannot check the list for John Adams of 123 Main Street, as the federal government will not share that specific information.

Point three.

There is a redress procedure for applying for what is known as a Redress Control Number. This number is received after proving to Department of Homeland Security that you are wrongfully on the Terrorist Watch List. This DOES NOT remove you from the list. You are merely given a control number to identify you as being wrongfully on the list.

Additionally, 99% of those who seek redress are granted redress. Meaning, that 1% of those on the selectee list are on the list with good reason. 99% do not belong on the list.

The FBI does not accept redress applications from individuals. An individual must go through the “screening agency” to request redress. There is no language in the bill relating to redress or which agency to go through.

Point four.

According to section f of the code, if section c.9 is added, when a person is flying and finds themselves detained, they have to turn in their firearms ID card within 5 days or face criminal sanctions. Unfortunately, those persons would not KNOW whether they were on the Terrorist Watch List or not, as that information is not shared.

 

Suggested actions:

Bill should not be brought to the floor of the Senate.

Amend the bill to only apply to those on the “No Fly” list, as the “Selectee” list is too broad.

Amend the bill to allow purchase of firearms when a Redress Control Number has been acquired and allow Redress Control Number to be used when flagged for future purchases.

Amend the bill to require the AG or NJSP to establish redress procedures before bill is enacted.

Amend the bill to modify section f to exempt c9 from the list of disabilities, as a person cannot know if they are on the list, but could inadvertently violate the law as written.

Reference items:

The following set of data was obtained from the Department of Homeland Security web site or the FBI website on one or more of the following pages.

http://www.dhs.gov/step-1-should-i-use-dhs-trip

http://www.dhs.gov/step-2-how-use-dhs-trip

http://www.dhs.gov/step-3-after-your-inquiry

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/nsb/tsc/tsc_redress

 

Only the relevant portions of the pages are included, to enhance readability. No edits to content have been made, except emphasis which is followed by (emphasis added).

 

When Should You Use DHS TRIP?

DHS TRIP can help you work to resolve travel-related issues when

You believe

• the U.S. government's record of your personal information is inaccurate
  

What is the terrorist watchlist?

Two subsets of the terrorist watchlist are the “No Fly” list and “Selectee” list:

• The “No Fly” list includes individuals who are prohibited from boarding an aircraft. You are NOT on the No Fly list if you receive a boarding pass.
  
• The “Selectee” list includes individuals who must undergo additional security screening before being permitted to board an aircraft.
  

How do I know if I am on a Government Watchlist?

The U.S. government does not reveal whether a particular person (emphasis added) is on or not on a watchlist.

Because the contents of the consolidated terrorist watchlist are derived from classified and sensitive law enforcement and intelligence information, the TSC cannot confirm or deny whether an individual is on the watchlist (emphasis added).

 

Ninety-nine percent (emphasis added) of individuals who apply for redress are not on the terrorist watchlist, but are misidentified as people who are.

Using DHS TRIP

 

DHS TRIP uses an online form that you complete using your computer and an Internet connection. It takes just a few moments to complete the screens and submit your complaint. You will be asked to submit documentation to complete the redress process..

 

For U.S. citizens

Please provide a legible copy of an unexpired U.S. passport. If you do not have a U.S. passport, please provide at least one legible copy of an unexpired government-issued photo identification document from the list below.

How the Information You Submit Will Be Used

 

The information that you provide will be used to process your request for redress. To process your request, DHS TRIP will share this information within the Department and outside the Department with components or entities that can help address the underlying issues regarding your redress request. DHS TRIP may share information about you with airlines or other third parties where necessary to implement the redress resolution.

In very limited circumstances, information from an individual may be shared for reasons not related to the redress process (emphasis added). For example, if a person were to submit information indicating illegal activity, such as providing a fraudulent passport or driver's license, this information may be turned over to appropriate authorities for proper investigation.

Redress Control Number

 

When you submit your DHS TRIP Traveler Inquiry Form, the DHS TRIP system automatically assigns you a Redress Control Number. You will be able to use this number to track the status of your inquiry. After your inquiry is completed, you will also be able to use the number when you make an airline reservation.

When you make an airline reservation, provide your redress number when requested by your travel arranger or airline representative, or when prompted by an interactive reservation system. This will enable your airline to determine quickly your identity and reduce the likelihood of mistaken identity during future trips.

 

 

After the Issue is Resolved

 

DHS TRIP is designed specifically to help travelers improve their travel experience and correct inaccuracies in government records that may contribute to difficulties when traveling. Security procedures and legal concerns mandate that we can neither confirm nor deny any information about you that may be within federal watch lists; we also cannot reveal any law enforcement-sensitive information. (Emphasis added)

You Disagree with the Resolution

 

If you feel that your request for redress was resolved incorrectly, please follow the instructions that you received in your resolution letter.

 

FBI - Filing a Redress Inquiry

The TSC does not accept redress inquiries directly from the public (emphasis added). Instead, members of the public should contact the relevant screening agency with their questions or concerns about screening. The screening agency is in the best position to identify and resolve issues related to that agency's screening process.

http://c.ymcdn.com/s..._Legislativ.pdf

 

 

this it?

 

wtf with this tiny type? lol

i just received written response by Sen. Gordon...

 

blah blah blah but I will still vote to restrict magazine capacity, universal background check and so on..

 

I called him back and asked to comment on grandfathering provisions and his thoughts on how they expect to compensate citizens if they are required to dispose of lawfully posesed property..

 

but i wanted to check if there are some other talking points that I can use..

http://c.ymcdn.com/s..._Legislativ.pdf

 

 

this it?

 

 

Exactly!!! thanks!!

i just received written response by Sen. Gordon...

 

blah blah blah but I will still vote to restrict magazine capacity, universal background check and so on..

 

I called him back and asked to comment on grandfathering provisions and his thoughts on how they expect to compensate citizens if they are required to dispose of lawfully posesed property..

 

but i wanted to check if there are some other talking points that I can use..

 

The mag cap(and .50+cal) one especially pisses me off. I call it a confiscation. When the gov't Forces you to surrender your possessions that you aquired using the laws and restrictions that are already in place? What else is it? I've got hundreds of dollars in mags and I'm positive many here have thousands invested in them. No matter how you get rid of them, sell, store out of state, dis-able them you are being forced to do so. They may not be the ones taking the mags but they sure as shit are the ones taking them away.No grandfathering?! No compensation?! Of course I dont want the mag cap AT ALL but for them to propose it AND not throw in the gf'ing or comp!!! The fugn nerve of those arrogant sob's

The mag cap(and .50+cal) one especially pisses me off. I call it a confiscation. When the gov't Forces you to surrender your possessions that you aquired using the laws and restrictions that are already in place? What else is it? I've got hundreds of dollars in mags and I'm positive many here have thousands invested in them. No matter how you get rid of them, sell, store out of state, dis-able them you are being forced to do so. They may not be the ones taking the mags but they sure as shit are the ones taking them away.No grandfathering?! No compensation?! Of course I dont want the mag cap AT ALL but for them to propose it AND not throw in the gf'ing or comp!!! The fugn nerve of those arrogant sob's

 

that's why I am fighting man...

 

sh!t... I am foreign born and seems like I have more respect for costitution than they do..

Actually I did a quick guesstimate and I easily have over a thousand bucks in mags and Im not even a collecter

Perhaps you could help with this:

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/49900-estimate-of-cost-of-the-22-bills-in-nj-legislature/page__fromsearch__1

 

Thanks.