Question for LEOs, is it common practice for agencies to supply hollow point ammo for training purposes? Is there anyway that this would be cheaper than hardball ammo?

Cops I know use speer gold dot hp for duty and Speer lawmen fmj for training. I believe some federal agencies use all hp for training. If you have the budget, I'd definitely see the usefulness. I know I'd only use "duty" ammo if I could afford it.

Many on here say they use Speer Lawman in the same weight bullet as is it supposed to mimic duty rounds. Not sure how correct that is.

 

I had a case of Lawman about a year ago and it was a bit hotter than your standard UMC or WWB.

Cheaper, more expensive doesn't matter to me, but I'd want to shoot what I will be carring, same reason I practice with the same Hornady CD rounds I carry when I CCW outside the PR of NJ.

most le depts use fmj as others have stated. few local depts use hollow points for training just because they want to train with what they carry.

Every Federal agency I know of uses the same ammo for duty, qualifications, and practice. This is not a new thing as the agency I retired from was doing it in the late 70s. Its not cheaper but not at the contract prices it was only about $1.50-2.00 a box more than FMJ last I knew. For the average agent who quals with 2 handguns and a long gun this means spending maybe $100 more per year. To my experience the contract price was always substantially less part way through the contract than street price. IIRC in 2001 Gold Dot 9mm was under $10 a box.

From the tiny bit I understand, I thought the goal was to train like you will be acting on the street and practice with what you will be using when you're there.

 

Saving a buck or two can cost a lot more in the long run....

I wanna find the Marine who said:

 

Although the DHS has attempted to explain its mammoth purchase of ammunition by claiming the bullets are being acquired in bulk to save money and that they are for training purposes only, this has been disputed by reputable voices such as former Marine Richard Mason, who told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”

 

I sure hope so, but that isn't the reason...

I wanna find the Marine who said:

 

Although the DHS has attempted to explain its mammoth purchase of ammunition by claiming the bullets are being acquired in bulk to save money and that they are for training purposes only, this has been disputed by reputable voices such as former Marine Richard Mason, who told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”

 

I sure hope so, but that isn't the reason...

 

Aren't they against the geneva convention.

As far as I know the speed lawman is the same bullet profile as the gold dots and loaded to the same velocity, just without the hollow point. It's slightly cheaper for training but will have the same feel and feeding as the hp's.

Question for LEOs, is it common practice for agencies to supply hollow point ammo for training purposes? Is there anyway that this would be cheaper than hardball ammo?

 

Yes it is. when you buy in quantity, the price pointing isnt that different from ball ammunition. Also, there have been threats by attorneys over carrying ammunition different than that used to train with.

I wanna find the Marine who said:

 

Although the DHS has attempted to explain its mammoth purchase of ammunition by claiming the bullets are being acquired in bulk to save money and that they are for training purposes only, this has been disputed by reputable voices such as former Marine Richard Mason, who told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”

 

I sure hope so, but that isn't the reason...

 

Here we go again. The explanation given in the link above is normal business for Federal LE. At least to my 30 years experience.

 

Richard Mason never saw hollowpoints in his 4 1/2 years in the USMC for the same reason I never saw hollowpoints in 42 years of service in the Army, Active, Guard, and Reserve. THE MILITARY DOESN'T USE HOLLOWPOINTS. There are two exceptions and that snipers use match ammo with a hollowpoint for ballistic performance not expansion. Also investigative agencies in the military like CID, NCIS, and OSI use hollowpoints.

Here we go again. The explanation given in the link above is normal business for Federal LE. At least to my 30 years experience.

 

Richard Mason never saw hollowpoints in his 4 1/2 years in the USMC for the same reason I never saw hollowpoints in 42 years of service in the Army, Active, Guard, and Reserve. THE MILITARY DOESN'T USE HOLLOWPOINTS. There are two exceptions and that snipers use match ammo with a hollowpoint for ballistic performance not expansion. Also investigative agencies in the military like CID, NCIS, and OSI use hollowpoints.

 

kinda funny that san francisco is banning hollowpoint bullets designed for military use only

Yes it is. when you buy in quantity, the price pointing isnt that different from ball ammunition. Also, there have been threats by attorneys over carrying ammunition different than that used to train with.

 

interesting point, thanks for bringing that up

 

 

kinda funny that san francisco is banning hollowpoint bullets designed for military use only

 

That's because the City Council in San Francisco know as much about ammunitin as they do about brain surgery. That is unless you are a brain surgeon.

 

The US military doesn't use hollowpoints for general issue.

I know that. You know that. And since they were made to look like fools they know it now too

I know of at least one department that both trains and carries HP ammo as of the spring of last year.. I also know of several air marshals that all carried HP ammo..