I may be way off base, but what if some of the FFL dealers broke a deal with manufacturers that permits them to receive weapons deemed illegal by the state and modified them to within the stupidity of NJ Legalese. I.E. XD-M40 which is illegal because its one whole round above 15.  the gun itself is legal but the magazine isn't if its not pinned to restrict that one whole round.  Dealers/gun shops add services to guns/rifles they receive and add to revenue, gun buyers get any gun they want within reason.

 

Done all the time already...... a lot of FFL's pin mags on incoming firearms to make them NJ legal.....  perfectly legal

Done all the time already...... a lot of FFL's permanently modify mags on incoming firearms to make them NJ legal.....  perfectly legal

So if i go to a dealer and order something like an XDM9 or 40, they automatically will pin those?  would it be an "additional fee?" does it depend on the dealer?

Up to the indivdual FFL.....

 

PM some of our vendors

hmmm.   thanks again for your time guys.

Some gun stores won't sell the xDM due to the "illegal" magazines.  Other stores will.  Best to call Paul at Arms-n-ammo.

does PAul at Arms and ammo sell the XD or is that just for custom mags?

Ended up finding an XDM9 that had a "pinned" magazine. If that's the definition of "pinned" then ANY one here could have done it.

large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable

of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from

holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

Ended up finding an XDM9 that had a "pinned" magazine. If that's the definition of "pinned" then ANY one here could have done it.

 

We will usually say pinned, however the legal term is, are the magazines permanently modified?

 

Some vendors do a good job, other stores do not.  Your best option is to just find out from the vendor, or fill out a gun price request.

I was concerned about him buying it out of state from a vendor who actually pinned the magazines or put a rivet in it and it was shipped her to an FFL that maybe didn't notice. Don't want to see OP get hung up over something stupid.

I may be way off base, but what if some of the FFL dealers broke a deal with manufacturers that permits them to receive weapons deemed illegal by the state and modified them to within the stupidity of NJ Legalese. I.E. XD-M40 which is illegal because its one whole round above 15.  the gun itself is legal but the magazine isn't if its not pinned to restrict that one whole round.  Dealers/gun shops add services to guns/rifles they receive and add to revenue, gun buyers get any gun they want within reason.

 

Also, the thing to understand... in NJ.... most handguns are not illegal.  It is the magazines.

 

On the rifles, yes, rifles have a banned list, and evil feature list. Vendors can take care of the evil features, but not if the item is specifically banned.  HOWEVER.... most handguns in NJ, as long as they comply, ie under the weight limit, etc, are for the most part all legal.

 

The thing that would get you in trouble are the magazines.

 

Ie... look at Smith Wesson M&P 9.  The gun was designed for 17 rounds.  For the ban states, they came out with 10 round magazines.  For NJ, they came out with factory 15 round magazines.

 

An M&P 9 was never illegal because of the 17 round mags.... it was the 17 round mags that were.

 

I suggest you review the gun law summary in the blogs section.

I will figure out a better way, but mine, and it turns out. If you try to clean them, it's no longer permanent.

I tried to clean my mags on my XDM and obviously, that includes taking them apart. It wasn't any different than my M4 mags (Still military so its legal for me to have them as they were issued), but what did surprise me was finding a wooden block under the spring. I got some slight resistance which would indicate glue/adhesive of some sort. So does that mean that if you have a pinned XDM and you try to clean it, you have to undo the "pinning?" I did some searching and found a block that I will modify and use stronger epoxy on the block and spring to ensure cleaning it no longer means making my mags a concern, but not to the point they can't be restored to normal. It'll take me a little bit, but I'll report the results. Eventually. Lol

I did some searching and found a block that I will modify and use stronger epoxy on the block and spring to ensure cleaning it no longer means making my mags a concern, but not to the point they can't be restored to normal. It'll take me a little bit, but I'll report the results. Eventually. Lol

 

 

 

large capacity ammunition magazine that has been

permanently altered so that it is not capable

of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will

cease to be defined as a "large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which

has been temporarily blocked or modified from

holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood

or a pin, is still considered to be a "large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

 

If you can get it back to 16 rounds, it's not a legal mag.

If you can get it back to 16 rounds, it's not a legal mag.

 

Where is the law stating that it must be permanent? 

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/062408_title13ch54.pdf

 

 

Go to page 6

But the law under 2c says nothing about permanant, and I thought that the Administrative code was just a previous AG's interpretation of the law.

 

ETA: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/26492-im-no-expert-but-i-think-im-right/#entry348683

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/19413-2nd-amendment-vs-nj-administrative-code/#entry255701

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/25874-magazine-capacity/page-3#entry433448

The spring may not be salvageable in restoration. In that interpretation, is permanent. epoxy will not come off. Replacing the spring is how I would restore IF I had to if say I sold it to a "free State" resident.

Where is the law stating that it must be permanent?

the law clearly states that anything temporarily blocked or modified is still deemed high cap. Just because the wording doesn't say permanent mean it can be temporary

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

the law clearly states that anything temporarily blocked or modified is still deemed high cap. Just because the wording doesn't say permanent mean it can be temporary

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

Can you cite where in 2c it says "anything temporarily blocked or modified is still deemed high cap" Did you read any of the links I posted?

Not trying to start anything just want to see it for myself.

It is really trying to pick apart the argument.

 

We know the intent of the law, and we know the interpretation of the law.  I guarantee, it will not stop someone from getting arrested and charged.  Yes, that is an argument for the court... but will do nothing to stop it. 

 

Once again though, I doubt anyone will get in trouble just over that.... and you likely did something else wrong.

But the law under 2c says nothing about permanant, and I thought that the Administrative code was just a previous AG's interpretation of the law.

 

ETA: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/26492-im-no-expert-but-i-think-im-right/#entry348683

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/19413-2nd-amendment-vs-nj-administrative-code/#entry255701

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/25874-magazine-capacity/page-3#entry433448

 

NJAC (Administrative Code) has the force of law.

I have never seen a discussion on a topic with possible legal ramifications not go south. Some can be entertaining, and some can actually teach. All in all, I'm glad there are resources available.

UPDATE:

I found the blocks that i needed without requiring modification and ordered them last week.  I just received them today and got to work before going to bed (work nights)

these are what i ordered

 

 

This is what i found inside my magazines when I tried to clean them.  They were glued shut at the base cover and the wooden blocks glued to the spring.

Essentially with a 4 round pre-load

 

 

I used some strong Adhesive and attached the new blocks under the follower instead without adding stress to the springs, damaging them or the base.

 

 

 

 

 Luckily, the previous person who modified them did not over do it with their adhesive so it was fairly easy to take apart without damaging any component.

 

The finished product looked like these

 

 

 

Now, the follower is permanently attached to the new blocks and the magazines will not fit more than 15 rounds and a toothpick.  perfect size without having to fight a spring to load the rounds due to the pre-load the springs were under with the wooden blocks. once i get around to the range and let off a few mags, I'll update again.

 

I'm somewhat disappointed that the vendor that "pinned" these did such a half assed job and hope it was a lapse in judgement.

 

Should i ever want to sell the XDM, it would be legal within the state and for those in one of the free states, I just swap the follower and they're back to 19.

If you don't mind me asking, who was the vendor that made those reversible modifications and presumably sold them in NJ as NJ compliant?

The only issue is... Is the magazines permanently modified to hold 15 rounds or less? Personally, I don't think so, when all it takes is for you to put in a stock XDS follower, or hell, buy a new grams spring and follower kit.

 

Unless the magazine body itself is blocked.... I don't see it as permanently modified.

 

Especially since the body still says 19 and you have to load the mag to prove it does not.

The only issue is... Is the magazines permanently modified to hold 15 rounds or less? Personally, I don't think so, when all it takes is for you to put in a stock XDS follower, or hell, buy a new grams spring and follower kit.

Unless the magazine body itself is blocked.... I don't see it as permanently modified.

Especially since the body still says 19 and you have to load the mag to prove it does not.

the magazine could say it will hold 1500 rounds, as long as it can't, it's capable of only holding the legal limit.

 

If you don't mind me asking, who was the vendor that made those reversible modifications and presumably sold them in NJ as NJ compliant?

I am trying to avoid that so as to not stain their name publicly and give them the benefit of the doubt that they've changed since. They supply a card with their name stating the magazines were permanently modified, which as long as they're not ever opened for any reason, to include cleaning, would be ok. Person who I bought the gun from said they would contact the vendor.

the magazine could say it will hold 1500 rounds, as long as it can't, it's capable of only holding the legal limit.

 

I am trying to avoid that so as to not stain their name publicly and give them the benefit of the doubt that they've changed since. They supply a card with their name stating the magazines were permanently modified, which as long as they're not ever opened for any reason, to include cleaning, would be ok. Person who I bought the gun from said they would contact the vendor.

 

Alright, fair enough.  Don't forget that there may be hundreds or thousands of their customers out here, unwittingly breaking the law by possessing magazines modifed by this company (magazines which are clearly not permanently modified).