please list any supporting law... (this situation is NOT me.. but instead an acquaintance in PA.. so NJ law would not really apply... but still interested in ANY feedback)

 

 

husband is prohibited person due to domestic violence issue with previous spouse

 

new wife is not prohibited and has a clean criminal background

 

 

new wife wants to purchase a firearm for herself that she keeps in the shared dwelling of the prohibited person. legal or illegal? 

I've never seen the law mention "household" or allude to cohabitants so I'd say she's legal to own and keep in marital home.

 

On the other hand, local NJ PD may deny and a judge may uphold the denial based the "best interests of society" clause due to the husband's cohabitation. 

 

Or, are you asking if the husband would be in violation of an order to not possess firearms?  That is a tricky one. 

Anselmo he said PA, so we can apply logic and not hypothesize NJ judges. Anthony, opinions are like bungholes. Consult a PA lawyer. If the firearm(s) are secured and prevents the prohibited person from access, I don't believe it would be an issue notwithstanding any particular laws addressing that situation.

Anselmo he said PA, so we can apply logic and not hypothesize NJ judges. Anthony, opinions are like bungholes. Consult a PA lawyer. If the firearm(s) are secured and prevents the prohibited person from access, I don't believe it would be an issue notwithstanding any particular laws addressing that situation.

I sent Nappen a message about it but may or may not hear back I know he's a busy guy... I assume there is a straight forward answer to this in America... Ultimately he may consult a lawyer but wanted to see if there was any first hand experience out there...

i was just perusing through the PA gun laws, and i dont see anything that specifies that a non-prohibited person cannot apply for and get a gun simply because they are married to (or live with) someone who is a prohibited person.  IMO (which means little), the wife should have no problems (he's not allowed to touch it though, or that would be a crime)..   As Chris said, double checking with a PA lawyer is the way to go

There is a guy in my union that is of let's just say questionable character. He is in no way shape or form suppose to be near a gun. But his wife owns one and has a ccw permit.

i was just perusing through the PA gun laws, and i dont see anything that specifies that a non-prohibited person cannot apply for and get a gun simply because they are married to (or live with) someone who is a prohibited person.  IMO (which means little), the wife should have no problems (he's not allowed to touch it though, or that would be a crime)..   As Chris said, double checking with a PA lawyer is the way to go

I don't know about that. Pretty sure there have been "Prohibited" persons at ranges using rental guns or sharing guns that "Non-Prohibited" people have brought to use. A "Prohibited" person is not eligible to purchase a firearm, but they may be allowed to retain firearms they already own. Who really knows until you are in a court of law................

I don't know about that. Pretty sure there have been "Prohibited" persons at ranges using rental guns or sharing guns that "Non-Prohibited" people have brought to use. A "Prohibited" person is not eligible to purchase a firearm, but they may be allowed to retain firearms they already own. Who really knows until you are in a court of law................

 

There is a big sign at Ready Aim Fire in Bristol, PA stating that prohibited people may not rent or shoot at the range.  

My Bro. Has Military PTSD. Cannot have firearms! His wife bought a shotty and keeps in house. What is the problem?

My Bro. Has Military PTSD. Cannot have firearms! His wife bought a shotty and keeps in house. What is the problem?

No problem as far as I know.... But that is what I'm trying to find out... LoL

I believe that as long as the firearm is not readily accessible to the prohibited person it is GTG. Whatever "readily accessible" is would be up to the courts to determine.

I have a friend here in NJ who applied for an FID and was denied due to an arrest over 20 years ago, but he was carrying a knife.  So its a weapons offense.  The CLEO told him to get it expunged and all would be good.  But in the meantime his wife got her FID and several P2Ps and bought him the gun he wanted anyway.   So he never bothered to get the arrest expunged.  They only shoot together so i guess it wont be a problem but i have told him multiple times to get it taken care of anyways.

Many years ago (probably prior to many of you here being born) G. Gordon Liddy (a Watergate "Plumber", convicted Felon) had a radio show that was broadcast on WABC 770 AM, in the mornings before Rush.  This topic of firearms in the home came-up.  G. Gordon proudly proclaimed that if a burglar came into their metro DC home in Virginia, that Mrs. Liddy would go fetch her .45 ACP and that he would promptly show Mrs. Liddy how to put said burglar "onto a platter" via the proper use of such firearm.  Mr. Liddy went-on to explain that his extensive collection of firearms were all transferred to his lovely bride upon his sentencing (sold to her for a mere $1 each), so therefore she was allowed to keep all of them.  G. Gordon also read from the federal and/or Virginia laws a little known "out" in which a prohibited person could use firearms, namely in the defense of one's self or one's family in which imminent threat of deadly force would be inflicted upon your person or family members.  I heard this with my own two ears.  I never looked it up myself, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were TRUE!  

 

Lots of federal laws are null and void with the proper circumstance and/or exception/exemption, i.e.:  FCC License requirements to use Ham Radio or even Military Radio frequencies in a real emergency.  Way-back-when (when the Goobermint had half a brain) it was figured-out that in a true emergency ANYBODY could pick-up a microphone and call for emergency help on ANY frequency!  An unlicensed Pilot, an unlicensed operator uses a Ham's radio for calling the authorities, even a civilian reaching into a patrol car to use a Cops radio if the Cop is in trouble.  All normally against the law!  Law is set-aside in an emergency.  These federal laws on the use of radio spectrum are still in-force today, and so are the exemptions and exceptions.......

 

Pennsylvania has a lot fewer firearms laws than we do.  And if it isn't specifically written that something is against the law, then you may "consider it legal to do so" through default.  Except for Philly, since somehow they have their own rule set...   So it doesn't surprise me at all to hear of a wife having a CCW even though her husband is a prohibited person via domestic abuse.

 

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.....

 

Dave

I don't know about that. Pretty sure there have been "Prohibited" persons at ranges using rental guns or sharing guns that "Non-Prohibited" people have brought to use. A "Prohibited" person is not eligible to purchase a firearm, but they may be allowed to retain firearms they already own. Who really knows until you are in a court of law................

Prohibited Persons cannot handle firearms at all (outside a possible emergency situation Smokin .50 describes above). So, renting, borrowing, using someone else's guns at the range ,and certainly owning firearms are all major no no's for a Prohibited Person.

How would a public range know if someone is prohibited? I bet that person would not volunteer that info. I have never rented a gun so I don't know what a range requires, besides a drivers license. Do ranges ask for an FID? Is there a form the renter fills-out which asks about that type of info? I am just an FID-less person, not a prohibited person. Lost my FID somewhere and have been waiting about four months for a replacement...................

The sign at Ready Aim Fire says the police stop in the range periodically to check that prohibited people are not on the range. 

How can PD reasonably verify whether or not its a prohibited person?

no one said it would be easy to verify if someone is a prohibited person..   that doesnt make it legal.  could a prohibited person handle a firearm in his own home?  sure..  will he go to jail just for touching a gun?  probably not, unless he gets caught..  (same thing with a range - unless he gets caught).  the wording in the PA law that i read doesnt just say "purchase", it also says "possess"..  but again, IANAL, so this is just my layman opinion

just to add to the other side discussion.. I believe that what the range is doing by posting that is making an attempt to transfer liability... they are saying hey.. if you are not allowed to legally handle guns.. stay out of here.. cops check sometimes.. and someone that is a prohibited person would probably just follow that warning.. because being caught with a gun could get them in a ton of trouble... it is probably nothing more than that.. 

Maybe this can be of help:  http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

The sign at Ready Aim Fire says the police stop in the range periodically to check that prohibited people are not on the range. 

 

It is called social engineering.

 

Prime example:

A gym was having a lot of towels removed from the gym and taken by members. 

 

Gym put up a sign stating that due to a high number of towel thefts, all towels had anti theft devices installed and an alarm would sound if they were taken out of the building.

Towel theft went to near zero.

 

The only thing the gym had actually done was put up a sign.

One or two years ago a prohibited dude's live in girlfriend won a desision in PA. She had an SKS leaning up against the wall in the apartment when the police came by on an unrelated matter. Both got arrested because of a felony conviction on his record. Judge, belive it was a federal district, said no no, you can't deny girlfriend her 2nd Amendment rights, she won. It never went any further and is presedent law in PA.

I think this is the one:

http://www.volokh.com/2010/11/24/second-amendment-protects-gun-possession-by-the-housemates-of-felons/

One or two years ago a prohibited dude's live in girlfriend won a desision in PA. She had an SKS leaning up against the wall in the apartment when the police came by on an unrelated matter. Both got arrested because of a felony conviction on his record. Judge, belive it was a federal district, said no no, you can't deny girlfriend her 2nd Amendment rights, she won. It never went any further and is presedent law in PA.

I think this is the one:

http://www.volokh.com/2010/11/24/second-amendment-protects-gun-possession-by-the-housemates-of-felons/

 

 

thanks that is exactly what I was looking for..