I tried to search but got nothing.

 

 

I'm not a rifle guy. In fact the only  "rifle" I own or have shot is a .22lr Marlin 60. But I'm looking to get my first centerfire semi-auto rifle.

The AR platform seems great and is obviously really popular. However, almost everything I've come across indicates that in a SHTF situation, an AK-47 variant is going to be more reliable, less "fussy" and (when looking at 5.56 vs 7.62x39) will bang the target harder. That said, the 5.56 NATO round is more accurate at longer distances (300m+) and also a better CQB/in-home defense round.

 

 

Opinions/advice?

AK in 5.56/223?

AK

 

Its a better combat rifle plain and simple.

 

That said, you have your choice of several cartridges.

I would first get the AR and then the AK. Thats the way I did it but it the old story of I just want one more until you get that one and then ok one more. I have AR's and now getting ready to convert my Saiga so just get one or the other then get the other!!!!

AR  Flexibility is key.  AR can be configured may different ways.  Caliber changes can be made by switching uppers.  AR parts are everywhere.  5.56 is a better HD caliber, List goes on and on.

 

 Best of all, made in the USA.

 

Had AKs and SKS for a long time.  Whenever I went to the range the ARs always went first.  Sold all foreign stuff. Not regretting it one bit.

 

In an AR, change the barrel, BCG, and mag, you have a new caliber weapon  system.

AR  Flexibility is key.  AR can be configured may different ways.  Caliber changes can be made by switching uppers.  AR parts are everywhere.  5.56 is a better HD caliber, List goes on and on.

 

 Best of all, made in the USA.

 

This

 

And also keep in mind, a broken part in your ak will turn it into a paperweight. AR parts are prevalent and cheap.

This

 

And also keep in mind, a broken part in your ak will turn it into a paperweight. AR parts are prevalent and cheap.

 

So how many ak paperweights have you seen? other then the barrel anything on an AK is just as easy to find and easier to replace then its AR counterparts.. not to mention the chances of said parts failing are much less

So how many ak paperweights have you seen? other then the barrel anything on an AK is just as easy to find and easier to replace then its AR counterparts.. not to mention the chances of said parts failing are much less

 

In the past 6 months Ive had about 10 brought into the shop for things ranging from a cracked piston head to broken springs . 

 

Your positions is that in the CONUS it is easier to find AK parts than AR parts? interesting.

 

 

Im not saying that its not a good gun, it just would not be my choice.  

Both of course

I see this thread going places. My vote is ak

In the past 6 months Ive had about 10 brought into the shop for things ranging from a cracked piston head to broken springs . 

 

Your positions is that in the CONUS it is easier to find AK parts than AR parts? interesting.

 

 

Im not saying that its not a good gun, it just would not be my choice.  

 

Just as easy to find parts. What springs were broken?  did the rifle with the cracked piston still function? how did it crack? was it an American made part?

In the past 6 months Ive had about 10 brought into the shop for things ranging from a cracked piston head to broken springs .

 

Your positions is that in the CONUS it is easier to find AK parts than AR parts? interesting.

 

 

Im not saying that its not a good gun, it just would not be my choice.

An AK has like 3 springs. Which springs broke? Obviously an AR since its an american based rifle is easier to get parts for but in saying that, there is no shortage of AK parts...at least for now. Get what you want the most.

Just as easy to find parts. What springs were broken?  did the rifle with the cracked piston still function? how did it crack? was it an American made part?

 

I'll bite. Name me shops in NJ that stock ak parts. 

 

Both were hammer springs that broke right where the leg and first coil meet. The cracked piston was on a stock saiga and the gun was non functional. The piston head was cracked from the oprod through to the face of the piston breaking off a portion of the piston head. 

Try to shoot both and decide. Where do you shoot? I have them both and you are welcome to try them.

AR...enter Vlad....

 

Are you buying a rifle to stash and forget about in preparation for the paranoid fantasy of a SHTF scenario? Then go ahead and get the cheap, battle-hardened, 'somewhat' more reliable AK.

 

Are you buying a rifle to have some fun with at the range that can be used in your paranoid SHTF fantasy scenario? You'll have far more fun with the AR as you can strive for precision and play with different accessories in the meantime.

 

Also, if you keep the bolt lubed, the AR won't malfunction. My BCM gun has performed flawlessly and i've never done anything other than lube the bolt every couple hundred rounds.

I don't think you get much more SHTF than prolonged use by pirates from a failed nation with constant exposure to salt water:

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/40886-another-entry-for-the-aks-dont-need-maintenance-file/

 

Rusted to hell and still shooting (although probably not that accurately)

Then again, AR's aren't exactly primadonna's in the prolonged firing/little maintenance department:

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/06/09/a-clean-wouldnt-hurt/

 

 

These photos were taken in 2005 by MisterPX of his custom AR-15 after 15,000 rounds of Wolf ammunition. He had lubed it every 1000 rounds but not cleaned it. A thousand rounds later a bolt lug sheared off and two magazines after that a second lug was lost and at that point he decided to terminate the experiment before something disastrous happened.

Then again, AR's aren't exactly primadonna's in the prolonged firing/little maintenance department:

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/06/09/a-clean-wouldnt-hurt/

 

Then there's this...

 

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/

I had several AKs before I bought an AR. I bought the AR pretty much to satisfy the ammo availability problem. I've see AK tests where they dump them in mud and then pull them out and shoot them. An AK can be serviced with water and motor oil if it had to be. The AR is way more sensitive to environment factors, requires regular maintenance that must be performed in a clean environment, and I doubt one would function long if at all if dunked in mud. The AR is more accurate and has a longer range, and .223/5.56mm ammo is here to stay.

I would use my AK for close proximity combat where accuracy and distance capability is less of a concern than reliability. If I needed distance in a HD situation, I'd go for my .308 Garand... I don't think that you could justify the use of deadly force shooting a target at a long distance these days unless we were in a world of sh1t and if the need did arise, we would have a load of other problem at hand also. Being attacked by a lone gunman at a distance is a very unlikely senario where I live, and if attacked by a group of gunman, well, like I said, I'd have a load of other problems for that to occur. My neighbors are a bunch of liberal gun-hating wimps so I'd have no back-up at all.

I have both and I love them both. But if I was to have a SHTF gun that I was storing and not performing any maintenance on it while stored, I would have to go with the AK. That gun always goes bang.

Thanks for all the replies and info guys. It's really appreciated.

 

@Chris: I didn't know even know those existed. Looks like there are some good ones out there, too- http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/chris-dumm/gun-review-arsenal-slr-106fr-5-56mm-ak/

 

@HuntingPaper: Nowhere good at the moment, at least not for rifles. Though I'm going to be joining EFGA soon (still only 100yds, but it's better than nothing).

 

@Jon: LOL. I'm not expecting the zombies to come any time soon (though you never know). 
I only referenced SHTF since, this being my first rifle, serious maintenance/repair is going to be outside my skill-set for a while. So I was thinking I should go with something that's less likely to need any extra care on my end.

 

@Nick: Good point about non-semis*. If it really came down to it, at HD distances I'm plenty comfortable with my shotguns for accuracy, stopping power and reliability. For longer distances, a bolt or lever action does seem like a good bet. (more research!)
 

Everyone else, thanks again for all the info and keep it coming

 
*My very next purchase is actually going to be a Mosin-Nagant 91/30. The AK or AR will be after that.

buy what ever the best deal is !! All guns need lovin  

Both of course

 

This is the best answer. I started with the AK platform (7.62x39 and 5.45x39) and have since added an AR. It is more accurate for sure but from what I have seen and heard AK's tend to be the more reliable of the two. Just look at some of the functioning AK's Somali pirates carry that are held together with duct tape and bubble gum with shovel handles used as stocks. I considered selling the 5.45 and getting a 5.45 upper for the AR but decided to keep the AK instead.

 

In a SHTF situation don't you want to have the ability to run multiple calibers? Maybe not if you are on the move but if you stay put it should be ok. The arguement that 5.56/.223 would be easier to find is understood but it is such a hugely popular caliber in the US that I would think it would dry up fast. Look at what happened with 22lr. That is why I would want options. If I could only have one it would probably be an AK style that runs 5.56/.223 or 7.62 Nato.

Both and a bunch of each. I have 2 AR's and 2 ak's in 7.62 and 1 each in 223, 5.45, 308 and 12 gauge. Prepped for any caliber i may find.

I have had a ton of cool AK variants.. saigas I built up.. they were extremely reliable.. and I swore by them.. always laughed at the AK fan boys with their little toy guns.... always told them about how much better penetration is achieved with 7.62x39.... always told them about how much more reliable and superior the AK was.. 

 

then I built my first AR.. like my actual first one... just to have.. wanted to have an AR just in case.. since it shares common mags.. common ammo... and then I really started to beat the shit out of it.. my AR 15 has proven to be just as reliable as all of my AK variants... I have a spare parts kit along with a small bottle of lubrication in my ammo rig... the gun is EXTREMELY light.. extremely fast.. extremely easy to work on.. and disgustingly accurate...  I will NEVER go back to AKs..

 

you talk about SHTF?

1 AR15.. 2 uppers..

 

first upper - small light mobile setup for moving.. and close light shooting.. red dot and a light..

second upper - in your pack a longer barrel.. free float tube.. and magnified optic... 

 

that setup will serve almost every function you could encounter.. 

 

AK with AR magazines is pretty cool.. I made one of those also.. but at the end of the day nothing beats an AR... I shoot hundreds of rounds through that thing with NO cleaning.. and I am not having any issues.. 

 

ammo... magazines.. parts.. all abundant.. 

my thinking was buy everything. but recently i decided to sell off most of my stable and get what im best with. in a shtf situation i figure if i can accurately take down targets then any weapons of common denominator i need would be available on the ground.

I only own a few guns.. and they are all purpose driven... 

I bought a Colt M4 and a Sar 2 (5.45). I hate the Colt. Very picky about which ammo you use and has to be extremely well maintained. I'd buy an AK, preferably in 5.45 as it's super cheap right now (175$ for 1080rds). 

I am looking to build a Vietnam SP1 M16 though, but after that I'm done with the AR platform. The FAL and AK's are far more interesting and I'd like to get a few of each.