The White House announced on Thursday that it intends to “ban almost all re-imports of military surplus firearms to private entities” through executive order, which would effectively shut down the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Program.

 

In a Fact Sheet published on Whitehouse.gov today referencing the upcoming executive order the ban on importing military weapons is designed to “keep military-grade firearms off our streets.” Exceptions for import may be allowed for museums.

 

The CMP tightly controls the distribution of obsolete military weapons. The program was created by the U.S. Congress as part of the 1903 War Department Appropriations Act with the purpose of allowing civilians to hone their marksmanship skills, should they later be called into military service.

 

 

Participants receiving firearms through the CMP must comply with all state and federal firearm laws and undergo a background check conducted by a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License in order to receive the gun.

 

 

Additionally, they must also be a member of a CMP affiliated shooting club, making participating in the program more difficult than anyone trying to purchase a firearm through usual retail channels.

 

 

The Civilian Marksmanship Program was administered by the United States Army from 1916 through 1996 when it was changed to the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice & Firearms Safety, a 501© (3) organization federally chartered by the U.S. Congress.

 

 

There are no data indicating any of the weapons involved in homicide were imported surplus military rifles. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s homicide crime statistics, rifles accounted for only 323 deaths out of 12,664 homicides in 2011, the most recent data set provided by the FBI.

 

 

“Apart from a donation of surplus .22 and .30 caliber rifles in the Army’s inventory to the CMP, the CMP receives no federal funding,” the CMP website states, adding that they have been overwhelmed by requests and orders are taking 30-60 days to ship product.

 

 

The rifles that the Executive Order would affect are typically from U.S. allies and are pre-Vietnam era. Without the importation of these rifles, the CMP is likely to become defunct and thus destroying a 110 year tradition of saving military arms and their civilian ownership.

 

All I know is the price of SKS rifles are going to go up!

I wish they would challenge the constitutionality of these orders.  Exec orders only apply to Fed Employees but somehow this get's blurred.

I guess I will never get that Saiga 9mm.

As near as I can tell, these orders do nothing. 

 

They don't eliminate the ability of a trust to avoid the CLEO sign-off from what I have seen, and that is the primary purpose of forming a trust for NFA items. 

 

The import ban covers a VERY small portion of firearms, and as far as the CMP goes, they get their guns form the government. The government would be the ones importing them. The government is listed as an exception to the order. 

 

These actions have one of two purposes. 

 

1) to look like he's doing something. 

 

2) To generate unrest in the gun owner community so they complain about them a lot and the dems can uses that as a bargaining chip to get votes for stuff that is actually onerous  in congress. 

All I know is the price of SKS rifles are going to go up!

So happy I got my albo.

From what I saw on their website, the CMP is/was slowly dying anyway. They were NEVER going to get anything more modern then the Garands, and those are mostly gone anyway. Its not like they ever had a chance of getting some surplus M-16's or Barrett .50s, or S.A.W.s. There hasn't been any "eligible" weapons in use for decades.

 

What this WILL do is stop importation of various historic/classic firearms, such as the WW2 Lee Enfields (at least the "Savage" US made lend-lease ones). These, and similar guns, are probably the bulk of that 250K number Biden mentioned in the press release.

 

Someone mentioned it affecting the SKS. I don't see how. WE didn't make those, or export them to allies; which is what the Exec. Order pertains to.

 

In the end, we won't really know the details until the text of the order is published. I've been refreshing the White House website since last night. Still nothing, for these new orders. With the holiday, they might not be "published" until next week. The good thing, is they are only executive orders, and a new president can unwind it all in about 5 minutes; as opposed to months or years of trying to get Congress/the House to implement legislation.

I'm pretty sure it will effect the importation of rifles like the SKS, AK, Mosin Nagant, ect.

I'm pretty sure it will effect the importation of rifles like the SKS, AK, Mosin Nagant, ect.

How? Again, we don't have the text of the actual order yet, but here's the "release" news briefing from whitehouse.gov : "bold/underline mine")

 

"When the United States provides military firearms to its allies, either as direct commercial sales or through the foreign military sales or military assistance programs, those firearms may not be imported back into the United States without U.S. government approval.  Since 2005, the U.S. Government has authorized requests to reimport more than 250,000 of these firearms."

 

When/to whom did the US EXPORT and sell any SKS, AK, or Mosin's to our allies? The statement clearly uses the term "re-import", implying that these arms would have been made in the US, EXPORTED to an allied government, and now no longer allowed to RE-imported. You can't RE-import something then never came from here to begin with.

 

Yes, its playing "semantics" to an extent, but that's how you beat them at their own game; by exploiting "flaws" and "gaps" in the foolish ill-conceived policies they come up with. Might it take an importer taking a case court, to set precedent? Maybe. But it might also just be a matter of an opinion letter from the ATF, and those guys are ANAL about the EXACT letter of the law. The LETTER of the law, assuming the actual order is consistent with the press release, supports the continued importation of anything that WE didn't originally EXPORT from here, to an ally.

I'm sure the un arms treaty would have axed all them anyway

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Because it would make sense (at least to me) that if Obama were to try to limit / stop re-importation of 

US made weapons that he wouldn't stop with just US made weapons. It would be a perfect opportunity

to ban / limit all military weapons (in my opinion).

 

Ad since we don't have the text of the actual order yet, we will just wait and see who's right.............

And for what it worth:

 

The administration also announced a new policy to prevent the importation of surplus military weapons, stating that since 2005, the federal government authorized requests to reimport more than 250,000 such weapons for private purchases.

“When the United States provides military firearms to its allies, either as direct commercial sales or through the foreign military sales or military assistance programs, those firearms may not be imported back into the United States without U.S. government approval, the White House said.

“Today, the Administration is announcing a new policy of denying requests to bring military-grade firearms back into the United States to private entities, with only a few exceptions such as for museums,” the White House announcement said. “This new policy will help keep military-grade firearms off our streets.”

–

As I said - Some people see it as just Re-Importation (because that is metioned as well) but I read it as Importing

Military type weapons into the US. - That would include SKS, AK & Mosins, ect. to say the least..............

America is becoming horrible. When can we fight back this damn thing with out votes

And for what it worth:

 

The administration also announced a new policy to prevent the importation of surplus military weapons, stating that since 2005, the federal government authorized requests to reimport more than 250,000 such weapons for private purchases.

“When the United States provides military firearms to its allies, either as direct commercial sales or through the foreign military sales or military assistance programs, those firearms may not be imported back into the United States without U.S. government approval, the White House said.

“Today, the Administration is announcing a new policy of denying requests to bring military-grade firearms back into the United States to private entities, with only a few exceptions such as for museums,” the White House announcement said. “This new policy will help keep military-grade firearms off our streets.”

–

As I said - Some people see it as just Re-Importation (because that is metioned as well) but I read it as Importing

Military type weapons into the US. - That would include SKS, AK & Mosins, ect. to say the least..............

 

the bold text says "...back into the US..." implying that they've been here before. also the article i read made it sound like the target here was ex-US weapons that were given to our allies. the stupidity of it all is that most of them are going to be guns like people have already said, garands and the like. great guns and awesome pieces of history, but is a thug or gangster going to use one of those? not likely. even the article in the original post here says pre-vietnam era weapons

the bold text says "...back into the US..." implying that they've been here before. also the article i read made it sound like the target here was ex-US weapons that were given to our allies. the stupidity of it all is that most of them are going to be guns like people have already said, garands and the like. great guns and awesome pieces of history, but is a thug or gangster going to use one of those? not likely. even the article in the original post here says pre-vietnam era weapons

This is not about public safety. This is 100% about disarming America

i'm not sure where i said it was about public safety, but i heartily agree with you.

lawlz

The CMP isn't going under any time soon.  They know the rifle supply is going to dry up eventually and have been preparing for it.  Once the guns are gone, they'll just focus on selling ammo & accessories and running competitions and classes.  

I love this.

No, but I could see one foolishly chopping one, to try and make a concealable SBR  . Oh, the horrors!!! :wild:

Congress can counteract EO's by defunding the ATF's ability to act on the EO. In other words if Congress wants to void Obama's EO the can pass legislation that forbids the ATF from spending any money enforcing the rule, which effectively forbids the ATF from doing what the EO says.

 

Sometimes Congress gets pissed when a President tries to use EO's to do an end run around the Legislature and defunds his EO's.

I saw through the lines to see it the way JT states. If Ge will block USA Maude's military grade weapons, he certainly will block the saiga's, and and mosins. Just the way I see it.

 

But in the end, we need to see the EO. It's all speculation beforehand.

Never seen a 'homie' with a 'Garand Thumb'.

Because it would make sense (at least to me) that if Obama were to try to limit / stop re-importation of 

US made weapons that he wouldn't stop with just US made weapons. It would be a perfect opportunity

to ban / limit all military weapons (in my opinion).

 

Ad since we don't have the text of the actual order yet, we will just wait and see who's right.............

I understand what you think makes sense. I understand why you would say it, and I agree that BO very well may have INTENDED to do just that. BUT, we all know, what they THINK they said/accomplished with a new law (or executive order in this case) isn't always the case. At least in part because they are making laws about things they don't understand. "They" often leave loop holes big enough to float an aircraft carrier through.( and not just with gun laws. Politicians make all kinds of laws without being sufficiently educated on those topics; which is disgusting.)

I mean, just look at the AWB in NJ. Clearly they THOUGHT they were banning all evil black rifles. All they really accomplished is to diminish and dilute a fairly short list of trademarked model names, and impose a few silly meaningless restrictions. I'm sure that no gun grabber, ever, has thought " Hmm, rifle that says AR-15, and has a flash hider = evil killing machine, but functionally/aesthetically identical rifle that says SuperSport Mega Gun-15 with muzzle brake that is welded on is safe and acceptable"  They are reactionary, thoughtless idiots; and let's hope they stay that way. A gun grabber who really knows guns, and starts writing "anti" laws, is much more dangerous.

 

But, we'll have to wait until the order is published, to see how many loopholes they left behind. I would expect to see it on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Here: https://www.federalregister.gov/executive-orders/barack-obama/2013 

The CMP isn't going under any time soon.  They know the rifle supply is going to dry up eventually and have been preparing for it.  Once the guns are gone, they'll just focus on selling ammo & accessories and running competitions and classes.  

 

I was wondering, what ARE the limitations for what the CMP can sell? There are a lot of Semi-auto only M14s the US military has  (converted from select fire M14s). And they are being supplanted with .308 variants of the AR platform for semiautomatic Designated Marksman Rifles.

Because it would make sense (at least to me) that if Obama were to try to limit / stop re-importation of

US made weapons that he wouldn't stop with just US made weapons. It would be a perfect opportunity

to ban / limit all military weapons (in my opinion).

 

Ad since we don't have the text of the actual order yet, we will just wait and see who's right.............

You can read into it all you want. Hint: the first bush already did what you are concerned about. They have to come in under sporting purposes tests anyway.

 

They don't necessarily come in the way you buy them as is.

I was wondering, what ARE the limitations for what the CMP can sell? There are a lot of Semi-auto only M14s the US military has  (converted from select fire M14s). And they are being supplanted with .308 variants of the AR platform for semiautomatic Designated Marksman Rifles.

http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/faq.htm

 

"When will M-14’s be available from the CMP?

Although one never knows what may happen in the future, we doubt that M-14’s will ever be available for purchase from the CMP.

What bolt action rifles are available?

Over the past ten years the Army has transferred to the CMP all depot stocks of Krags, M1917s, M1903, and M1903A3 rifles. In addition, a large quantity of M1903s were returned from overseas and also transferred to the CMP. There are no longer any of these model rifles on loan overseas or in Army inventory, other than what they reserved for museum use. For the past few years, the only source of these rifles was/is from veterans organizations (VFW, AL, AMVETS, MCL, etc) as they either shut their chapters or as they upgrade the worn out rifles to M1 Garands.

For all practical purposes, the CMP sold out of these rifles in 2009, but has accumulated a few more that we will begin inspecting and offering for sale sometime in 2011 – one model at a time. We have approximately 600 M1917s, 100 Krags, 400 M1903 and 400 M1903A3 models.  At this time we cannot predict how many will pass inspection as complete rifles and how many will be just barreled receivers. Until we complete inspecting each and every one of these rifles and know what we have, we will not be able to set prices or take orders (or pre-orders) or establish a waiting list.

As with our smallbore rifles, once all of the above listed models are sold, that will basically end CMP sales of surplus bolt action rifles, except for the trickle – which we will probably just auction by then."

I was wondering, what ARE the limitations for what the CMP can sell? There are a lot of Semi-auto only M14s the US military has  (converted from select fire M14s). And they are being supplanted with .308 variants of the AR platform for semiautomatic Designated Marksman Rifles.

 

They can't sell M-14s.  They were selling build-your-own kits made from drill rifles for a while, but that's all.  Orest has specifically said "no" on M14s many times.  I think in 2 or 3 years, the CMP is just going to have a trickle of rifles on their auction site and that's it.  

The CMP can't sell complete M14s or receivers ever, or M2 marked carbines. Or M16s. Even if they get them from the DoD, which is highly unlikely. Remember, kids, OAMG, AAMG. This EO, as described in the media so far, stops re-importation of US made military small arms, and looks to me squarely aimed at the long running Korean M1/M1A carbine re-importation via sale to a 3rd party (not USG, which is the ONLY way CMP gets firearms to sell) contraversy. The issue with the Korean stuff, was that they were given/lent as military assistance, and the Koreans are trying to make a buck off them. The last big return of US made hardware was the Greek M1s loaned to them in the mid 60s. Lots of them came back unused. What this EO will do is cause a run on CMP, (there already is one, this will make it worse) so here's some  points of advice:

 

1. If you want an M1 in good shape at a good price, get one from CMP NOW

2. If you want an M1 in good shape at a good price, get one from CMP NOW

3. If you want an M1 in good shape at a good price, get one from CMP NOW

 

You also may want to consider buying an M1 or two or three from CMP

 

the folks in Anniston remember well the Clinton years when they were forced to destroy M14s and M1A/M2/M3 and M1s using Captain Crunch. Their official policy is that no one may buy CMP rifles explicitly for resale. But that's enforced about as much as weed laws are in Colorado are these days. The point (IMHO) in rapidly selling the returns they got after their change in status in 1996, was to get the rifles out into private hands, so they would always be available even at a higher price. They (CMP execs) will never admit this of course, the were just  "doing their jobs". But better to have them scattered in gun safes somewhere than be shredded for a Clinton or Obama photo op