Update 10/03/13: Don't recall seeing this talked about anywhere here or near past, so I decided to open this thread as a barrel discussion thread. I've been finding a lot of good info due to Raz's comment. He got me digging into the subject more. I didn't want to think that Raz's comment was an end all to the subject. Thanx Raz... you jarred my interest Read further to understand the contents of the thread.

 

Decided to keep my partial build that I listed in the market area due to no activity...So I'm buying the parts to finish it. I ordered this barrel from ebay for $149.... . Check out their website. Chatted with the fellow awhile and if this barrel is everything he says it is, it may very well be a decent barrel for the buck that people can use for their builds. I'll post a follow up when I get it either today or tomorrow. You can't beat his price and what seems to be, a great price for a fluted 5.56 barrel. He forgot to add to the description that it has M4 ramps and has gas port drilled. Reason I mention this is because there are people/companies out there selling cheap barrels that are not drilled and they don't tell you.

 

I'll be adding a flat top gas port and troy claymore muzzle brake.

 

$149 plus shipping...

Brand : HM Defense & Technology

Weight : 1 pound 15 oz.

Finish : Hot Blued , Beat Blasted , Mate Finish ( Barrel  Extension Piece surface  and Muzzle Thread is protected from beat blasting for easy assembly . )

Caliber : 5.56 Nato / 223 Rem. ( Chambered with 5.56 NATO Reamer and Marked 5.56 on Barrel)

Length : 16"

Gas Port Size : .750 (carbine length gas port )

Metarial : 4140 Steel

Made In USA

Threading:1/2 x 28

Twist : 1 : 7 RH

 

 

Intriguing... Keep us updated please!

Wilco..... if these turn out to be great, maybe a group buy would be an idea....

It's low grade cmv that is blued. It'll be very susceptible to rust, and the gas port and throat will flame cut faster than 4150. No where near the durability of chrome lined.

 

It's cheap, but not cheap enough to justify the shortcomings IMO.

 

 

I figured. TNSTAAFL

Thanx for the let down.. Ugh.

 

 

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I figured. TNSTAAFL

Ok, what does that stand for? Edit: Never mind: There's no such thing as a free lunch..

But there is, we just haven't got together yet.

 

 

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It's low grade cmv that is blued. It'll be very susceptible to rust, and the gas port and throat will flame cut faster than 4150. No where near the durability of chrome lined.

 

It's cheap, but not cheap enough to justify the shortcomings IMO.

If this is true, I guess just taking care of it more often will stifle wear I hope. No more than a blued old revolver. It's not going to be a 1000 round a month gun. Ugh...

 

Here is a response he gave me when asking about chrome lining.

 

Yes , They are drilled and ready to install

Please look at our web when you get chance . we are engineering firm and produce precision quality products.

We don't have chrome lined barrels.. They are button rifled and accuracy barrels. Chrome line will increase the life of the barrel and you might loose accuracy.. Our prices are very reasonable for introductory purpose. You will have plenty life time from barrel..

 

 

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4140 doesn't seem so bad for our needs. After raz made that post, I did some reading.

 

One of the comments on the AR site was: "4150 has more carbon in it, which makes its have a better potential for hardness. The government determined through its testing that it resists damage from heat and pressure better than 4140. It all comes down to whether you think you need it. Im sure you will be fine using the 4140. Most people wont shoot 2500 rounds through an AR the entire time they own it."

 

Here is a link to the whole conversation: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/542510_4140_barrel_steel.html

 

Some other notes I found that 4140 vs 4150 would only be a more important factor if you were going full auto...

Here's some more comments and specs..

 

The 4100 series steels are low alloy carbon steels with chromium and molybdenum for strength and machinability.

4140 steel chemistry; numbers are % mass:

Carbon 0.38 - 0.43
Chromium 0.8 - 1.1
Manganese 0.75 - 1
Molybdenum 0.15 - 0.25
Phosphorus 0.035 max
Silicon 0.15 - 0.35
Sulphur 0.04 max
Iron Balance

4150 chemistry:

Carbon 0.48 - 0.53
Chromium 0.8 - 1.1
Manganese 0.75 - 1
Molybdenum 0.15 - 0.25
Phosphorus 0.035 max
Silicon 0.15 - 0.35
Sulphur 0.04 max
Iron Balance

The ONLY difference is 4140 has 0.1% less carbon than 4150. For as often as the average civilian shoots an AR, you have nothing to worry about from a materials standpoint for the life of the firearm, and perhaps your own lifetime. I don't think I'll need to worry that much.

This page can help explain a lot to folks too, including myself. Nice page in a nice package for quick knowledge... Maybe I should change the title of this post to Barrel analogies..

http://neverenuffammo.com/?p=355

Interesting info regarding barrel lengths..

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/the-truth-about-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/

I wouldn't worry too much about it being chrome lined or not. Chrome lining and CHF they say affect accuracy. Not enough that really anyone has to worry bout it. Chrome lining will prolong the life of a barrel and make it a little easier to clean. How much it will prolong the life is subjective. My 24" AR barrel isn't CL, and I don't lose sleep over it. My DD is chrome lined and CHF and its a tack driver. So, enjoy the purchase and let us know how the build goes.

I'm also really amused at what I can only assume is chinese translation for their message.

 

Blued barrels are .. odd for something that is going to be under handguards and can't be regularly oiled.

Thought about that. I'll probably lube it with something that won't burn off or simply disappear with time. Any suggestions like Frog Lube of something? Or maybe get it cerakoted?

 

I'm also really amused at what I can only assume is chinese translation for their message.

 

Blued barrels are .. odd for something that is going to be under handguards and can't be regularly oiled.

Thanx, will do. It will be here today... so I'm not going to just chuck it in the corner.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it being chrome lined or not. Chrome lining and CHF they say affect accuracy. Not enough that really anyone has to worry bout it. Chrome lining will prolong the life of a barrel and make it a little easier to clean. How much it will prolong the life is subjective. My 24" AR barrel isn't CL, and I don't lose sleep over it. My DD is chrome lined and CHF and its a tack driver. So, enjoy the purchase and let us know how the build goes.

Thought about that. I'll probably lube it with something that won't burn off or simply disappear with time. Any suggestions like Frog Lube of something? Or maybe get it cerakoted?

 

Lube won't help for long. Getting it cerakoted would but that point you could have just bought a barrel that didn't need it for the same money or less.

 

I for one would see if they take returns, but hey it is your money.

Turkish...

 

I believe this is his main company, some nice stuff...

http://www.luxusarms.com/index.html

 

 

I'm also really amused at what I can only assume is chinese translation for their message.

 

Blued barrels are .. odd for something that is going to be under handguards and can't be regularly oiled.

No returns... As for price for fluted... you won't find them that cheap...

 

I'll just go with the flow and see what happens. They have stainless steel fluted, but it's 250 bux...

 

This gun will not see a lot of outdoor use and I clean my guns regularly whether they need them or not. My M6 is my go to primary gun for anything now. This will be my 3rd AR and last in line of need... it's for the most part, a backup...

 

 

Lube won't help for long. Getting it cerakoted would but that point you could have just bought a barrel that didn't need it for the same money or less.

 

I for one would see if they take returns, but hey it is your money.

OK, prob solved for now. I'll be duracoating some parts, might as well do that too. Same cost for anything I'm going to do...

 

Lube won't help for long. Getting it cerakoted would but that point you could have just bought a barrel that didn't need it for the same money or less.

 

I for one would see if they take returns, but hey it is your money.

I really dont care about the fluting personally so for me that wouldn't be a selling point. If I want a light barrel, I get a light profile barrel. 

 

The thing about barrel is that they are the one and only place where it makes zero sense to go cheap, specially in NJ. 

 

You can shoot a crappy trigger accurately. You can shoot crappy sights accurately, you can shoot crappy hand guards accurately, you can shoot a cheap stock accurately. Pretty much everything in the gun can be worked around if they are not the best quality, but you can never make bad barrel shoot well. This isn't to say this is a bad barrel, it is just an unknown barrel. 

 

Now consider the price difference between a good barrel and a unknown barrel as a fraction of the cost of the entire rifle, not just against each other. If you can get a known quality barrel for $100 more (and you can) how much of the total rifle cost is that? Around 10% to 15%? Does that make sense to skimp on?

 

Lastly this is NJ. Because of our silly muzzle laws if you decided you want to replace it, you not only have a more complicated process that might involve cutting and torching, but for sure you are also throwing away your compensator which now needs to be added into the effective price of the barrel. 

 

So .. is this a bad barrel? I dunno. Would I take a chance on a unknown manufacturer, for a blued barrel, not chromed, made from not the best steel, to save $100?   I wouldn't, and I'm usually a cheap bastard frugal. 

Just got the barrel and it looks pretty nice. Doesn't look blued, looks like the typical other finishes you'll find on uppers and lowers. Quality looks pretty nice.
You're right, using an unknown company is dicey... but what's to say we cannot discover a new company that might be good for all of us. If it turns out it sux, I'll use it for a crow bar....
 

As for as a lesser quality metal, 4140 vs 4150, if you read my previous posts with the comparisons and other people's thoughts, it's not a big difference. So far your concern seems to be mostly the finish and lining.
 

Price finding barrels reasonably priced last week was slim to none. One minute they were in stock, next minute not. So rather then drag this through the dirt over and over, let's just see how it works out for now. So far it looks well made. I won't have the rest of the parts till at least the weekend, so full assembly won't happen yet... Thanks for your input so far..

Are you saying it is parkarized not blued?

 

As for the metal .. I guess to each his own. The comment you quoted was funny, because it says 2500 rounds for a lifetime for most people. I guess if that is true, then yes barrel metal doesn't matter. I can tell you that my first AR barrel was 4140 (I didn't know better and the choice were less back then) and after about 5000rd  bullets were impacting sideways at 25 yards.    I guess I'm not the average civilian so it is an issue to me. For my money go chrome lined for utility and stainless for precision, but good chromed barrels can be nearly as accurate. 

The description says: Finish : Hot Blued , Beat Blasted , Mate Finish ( Barrel  Extension Piece surface  and Muzzle Thread is protected from beat blasting for easy assembly . )

It has a satin like finish. Not shiny smooth like let's say a blued Colt or S&W revolver. I'll try take some photos when I get away from my desk in a few.

 

Are you saying it is parkarized not blued?

Here is a link to the barrel with different photos...

http://s743.photobucket.com/user/bhunted/slideshow/Builds_Parts

 

Also, got a response back about the finish....

 

Outside of the barrel beat blast ( muzzle end and extension protected for easy installation)
Finish is Oxyante 7 , which gives deep black color plus expensive. It is not cheap parkerized finish.

 

 

Oxyante 7 is just hot bluing, nothing that fancy: http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/metal-bluing/bluing-salts/oxynate-no-7-prod1066.aspx

 

I much rather have parkerizing. 

Oxyante 7 is just hot bluing, nothing that fancy: http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/metal-bluing/bluing-salts/oxynate-no-7-prod1066.aspx

 

I much rather have parkerizing.

Should be durable I think... But I have Duracoat enroute anyway. You look at the photos I posted?

 

 

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Thought about that. I'll probably lube it with something that won't burn off or simply disappear with time. Any suggestions like Frog Lube of something? Or maybe get it cerakoted?

 

unicorn sparkles? 

 

What you want doesn't exist. Unless you mean some kind of high temp paint rather than lube. 

 

Also your quoted articles are not relevant. 

 

Hot .223 ammo (m193, m855) kills a barrel in two ways. Gas port erosion and throat erosion. This is due to the gas flame cutting the steel. Even chrome lined barrels will succumb to this, just slower than most. 4150 as a substrate deals with it better. When I got into the DIY AR stuff, chrome lined barrels were of limited availability, quality ones doubly so. Most built stainless or parkerized CMV barrels. For a budget build, a CMV barrel would get it done. All the lube in the world won't prevent it, and a carbine length gas system jsut makes the gas port erosion happen faster. 

 

The thing that really tells me to not buy something like this $150 barrel is that it is blued. Bluing is cheap if you skip good surface prep to make it pretty or don't hot blue. Parkerizing is pretty easy form a labor standpoint, and give corrosion protection. And Oxyante 7 is not cheap compared to parkerizing? A 5 gallon can of the stuff is $135. Good manganese parkerzing solution is about $160 a gallon. 

 

When the vendor is choosing a lower quality finish, a lower lower quality steel, and for the $150 price it is in theory a fluted barrel which requires more machining time (and the skill/cnc setup to keep it symmetric so POI doesn't shift badly as the barrel heats up). Ask yourself how much they care about quality.  Ask yourself if you will essentially be throwing away $150. Ask yourself why they lied to you about the cost of the finish. 

 

I'm assuming you bought it since you have a gallery up, so hopefully it is ok, but like I said. I wouldn't buy one.

 

Myself, it's 4150 that's been melonited, 4150 CMV chrome lined, or a good stainless steel. 

It was bought before posting.... ( I know the other articles are not pertinent. It's why I changed the title...still interesting info)...

 

Nevertheless, it's here. And if I don't like it or it goes tits up, I'll make a table lamp out of it. I can always get a new barrel if I have to. I may just get a whole new upper if I get a few more bux, but for now it will have to do.

 

 

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Been chatting online with him again and was passing along info. Rather than go on with me, he offered to take it back for refund and pay for shipping. Hmmmmm...

 

 

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