I have read many of the posts about bad advice received on a variety of topics from FFLs who should know better. Now I have one of my own.

 

I was at an FFL in PA this week, and inquired about the procedure and rate they charged to transfer a rifle from a NJ resident to a PA resident. (I made absolutely certain we were discussing a transfer between residents of two different states.)

 

I was told emphatically (by three different store workers) that they were not required to participate; the NJ resident could just hand the rifle over to the PA resident. I strongly disagreed on the basis that this was an interstate transfer and at least one FFL was required to mediate the transaction, preferably in the state of the recipient. After some back and forth where I remained completely skeptical, one of them called another FFL to speak to a person of 'authority'. That person came back with the same answer: you're good to go.

 

Frankly, I still didn't believe them; I have been diligent about staying current on firearms law on the state and federal levels. So I came home, went on the ATF website, checked the FAQ and found the two relevant statements backed up by the references to the law (which I have now directly read). Guess who was right; the store or me?

 

I should note they agreed the transfer procedure for a handgun was a whole different story. But they insisted a long gun could just be passed along between interstate private parties.

 

I know the people at this store and they're not stupid. But I find it incredible they would be this misinformed on a topic this basic and important. They were essentially advising one of their customers to commit a felony. I'll be documenting the facts and return with them to the store to straighten them out.

 

At the end of the road, we're all responsible for our own compliance, aren't we?

 

when someone tells me something... I always seek the LAW that supports it.. 

I will show them the LAW.. and if they still want to remain stubborn I just cut my losses at that point..

 

there are some awesome FFLs out there.... some that will ask for help when they are not sure.. but then there are just as many that are awful and spread misinformation... TONS OF IT.. 

Geoff:

 

How about sharing the name(s) of this/these dealers?

 

You are right - the one that is ultimately responsible for compliance is yourself.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

A good strategy Vlad; I heartily concur.

 

And Bob, I hesitate to publicize their name at this point. If they don't straighten themselves out after my next visit, I might consider it. I want to know if this was an innocent (incompetent?) error, or willful ignorance. Either way of course, if I was an FFL, I couldn't imagine being this far out of the legal loop.

 

BTW, here's the ATF link. My questions of interest are the first two, and the statute references are right under the answers.

 

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons

state laws override federal laws, therefore you can't always go by ATF regulations

state laws override federal laws, therefore you can't always go by ATF regulations

 

Other way around. There may be additional state requirements - above and beyond the federal ones, but federal laws are not overridden.

Other way around. There may be additional state requirements - above and beyond the federal ones, but federal laws are not overridden.

incorrect, if there is no state law, you follow federal, otherwise you follow the state law......

I think we are dealing with a matter of semantics here. By following the state law you are not violating the federal law, you re adhering to a stricter standard - the federal law is still being met.

I ran into the same issue with a NJ FFL (who many people on here use) tell me that I could do a FTF transfer for a rifle with a PA resident. I knew this was wrong so I just went to Jim Flynn and did the transfer there instead.

I ran into the same issue with a NJ FFL (who many people on here use) tell me that I could do a FTF transfer for a rifle with a PA resident. I knew this was wrong so I just went to Jim Flynn and did the transfer there instead.

when in doubt, use a ffl

Bob - I understand what you are trying to say but what I believe tony 

may be trying to point out is that STATE law is the deciding factor in

weather or not you can legally do a transaction (in this case a transfer)

 

A good example of State law overideing Federal law is in regards to a C&R

transfer - The ATF recognizes a C&R lic where as NJ does not - so you cannot

legally use a C&R for a transfer in New Jersey (State overrides federal)

I cannot find any PA state statute that says a PA resident may legally receive any kind of firearm directly from an out of state resident. Therefore the Federal GCA of 1968 is not superseded in PA by state law.  If anyone knows of such a statute, please cite it here.

 

Here are the Top Ten Questions from the ATF. See question 2; the answer is not ambiguous. The only circumstance where an FFL is not involved in an interstate transfer is in the case of a death and firearms have been willed to someone in another state.

 

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

I cannot find any PA state statute that says a PA resident may legally receive any kind of firearm directly from an out of state resident. Therefore the Federal GCA of 1968 is not superseded in PA by state law.  If anyone knows of such a statute, please cite it here.

 

Here are the Top Ten Questions from the ATF. See question 2; the answer is not ambiguous. The only circumstance where an FFL is not involved in an interstate transfer is in the case of a death and firearms have been willed to someone in another state.

 

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

as a nj resident & seller of a long gun, you need to see a NJ FID card & a NJ drivers license, both with matching addresses, from the potential buyer....so if he is a Pa resident, he has neither NJ document, period, simple, I think you are looking too far into the matter.

IMHO:

If you have to use the words "supersede or override", Federal Law overrides State Law, but States can make laws more restrictive if not restricted by Federal Law.

 

EX: Federal Law says one can buy a long gun from any state. Certain State Laws say one may only buy from a contiguous state. State Wins.

EX: Federal Law says a RLEO can carry a handgun and HPs in any state w/o a permit. NJ Law says a NJ resident needs one. Federal Wins.

as a nj resident & seller of a long gun, you need to see a NJ FID card & a NJ drivers license, both with matching addresses, from the potential buyer....so if he is a Pa resident, he has neither NJ document, period, simple, I think you are looking too far into the matter.

 

According to NJSP and NJ Law, the addresses need not match. I kept my mouth shut on this for too long. A FPID does not automatically become invalid because one moves. I have sold several long guns with different addresses. It was never an issue. As long as the purchaser writes in their current address on the 4473 and displays a combination of government issued documents with their Photo, DOB, & Address, you may sell.

 

You may sell a long gun to anyone with an out of state DL and a NJ FPID. Been there, done that.

true Paul, I have a friend who lives in staten island & has a njfid card

What should I do in the case of a friend in PA wanting to sell me a few of his rifles? Can I use the C.O.E. form or do I have to have it sent to an FFL?

transferred thru FFL

1. Handgun purchases by
....A. NJ resident from
........(1) NJ dealer = NICS check with a P2P and Photo ID
........(2) NJ resident = face to face with a P2P with Photo ID suggested
........(3) Out-of-state dealer = must be transferred through NJ dealer - Refer 1A(1)
........(4) Out-of-state resident = must be transferred through NJ dealer - Refer 1A(1)
....B. Out-of-state resident from
........(1) NJ dealer = must be transferred through buyer's home state dealer
........(2) NJ resident = must be transferred through buyer's home state dealer

2. Long gun purchases by
....A. NJ resident from
........(1) NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID
........(2) NJ resident = face to face with a FPID, COE with Photo ID suggested
........(3) Out-of-state dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID
........(4) Out-of-state resident = must be transferred through
............a. NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID or
............b. Out-of-state dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID
....B. Non-resident from
........(1) NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID
........(2) NJ resident = must be transferred through
............a. NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID or
............b. Out-of-state dealer = consult buyer's home state laws