are both of these free floats below?  I ask because one looks directly mounted to the receiver, which is how I thought all free floats are.. the other looks like its fitted inside the compression ring (sorry, don't know the real name of that ring).

 

http://sadefensejournal.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/np1.jpg

 

 

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/03%20Design%20Group-BCM/DPP_0001copy-4.jpg

 

if the second one is a drop in how does the far end get supported?

 

The reason i'm asking isn't about pros/cons of free float.. its just about the cosmetic of one vs the other..

 

thanks!

 

 

 

The free float attaches directly to the receiver. And the drop in attaches to the delta ring and the front end is supported by the front ring (behind the FSB.

 

For an example the upper in my sig is a free float hand guard (quad rail). No front ring to clip in to. And attaches right to the receiver

 

Personally I like the free float look better than the drop in style.

Delta ring.

According to the photos - They both appear to be free Floats...................

The first rail is a Troy Alpha Rail. The second rail is a LaRue Tactical Rail.

 

Neither attach at the front and both are free floating.

 

Both require the removal of the delta ring and use a proprietary barrel nut to attach the rail directly to the receiver.

 

They also both require the disassembly of the barrel/FSB/Muzzle device for installation making them a poor choice to upgrade an existing rifle in PRNJ where muzzle devices are pinned making the removal of the FSB and installation of a low-profile gas block difficult at best.

The first rail is a Troy Alpha Rail. The second rail is a LaRue Tactical Rail.

 

Neither attach at the front and both are free floating.

 

Both require the removal of the delta ring and use a proprietary barrel nut to attach the rail directly to the receiver.

 

They also both require the disassembly of the barrel/FSB/Muzzle device for installation making them a poor choice to upgrade an existing rifle in PRNJ where muzzle devices are pinned making the removal of the FSB and installation of a low-profile gas block difficult at best.

the troy uses the stock barrel nut. i have one and i like it a lot. it does require a low profile gas block but a front sight block can be cut down if the muzzle device is pinned and welded already. that what i did with mine. it only took about a half hour with a dremel.

Right. I knew that about the Troy, I don't know why I said it was proprietary. Thanks!

Yes..  Delta ring.. duh, I should have known that..

 

but why does one look there is no ring and the other has the appearance of a ring?

Yes..  Delta ring.. duh, I should have known that..

 

but why does one look there is no ring and the other has the appearance of a ring?

Because the Troy rail deletes the ring while the Larue seats inside the delta ring but on a propreitary nut

Why is one black with rails and the other FDE and mostly rail-less?

 

They are simply different designs by different companies requiring different methods to attach the rail to the upper receiver.

alright I got it..   its merely a cosmetic thing.. just wanted to make sure they were both free float..

alright I got it..   its merely a cosmetic thing.. just wanted to make sure they were both free float..

Free floating refers to the barrel and whether or not anything is touching it that could affect accuracy.  On an AR, that means that at no point forward of the receiver, does the handguard touch the barrel.

Right. I knew that about the Troy, I don't know why I said it was proprietary. Thanks!

It is about time you got something wrong High Exposure !!!  LOL  

 

Seriously though you and MPX are real assets to this forum.

Barms,  If you are considering the Troy Alpha rail I would try one out first if you have not already. I have one on my 308 but IMHO It is not for everybody.

 

Also look at the Troy VTAC.  I have had two and it is a nice FF rail for the price and attaches to the standard barrel nut after the delta ring is removed.

It is about time you got something wrong High Exposure !!!  LOL  

 

Seriously though you and MPX are real assets to this forum.

im just glad i was the one that got to correct him.

If I wanted the lightest possible free float handguards and KEEP my front sight base, what would you all suggest? 

EMBRACE YOUR KEYMOD OVERLORD.

If I wanted the lightest possible free float handguards and KEEP my front sight base, what would you all suggest?

 

That is an excellent question and one I have been pondering for quite some time, unsuccessfully I might add...

 

 

EMBRACE YOUR KEYMOD OVERLORD.

Yes, keymod looks like the way to go to save weight, but I haven't yet found a true keymod tube that lets you use the FSB.

 

Also, Bravo Company is coming out with a keymod tube that looks groovy, and the Geissele one looks cool too.

If I wanted the lightest possible free float handguards and KEEP my front sight base, what would you all suggest? 

If you do not want to change anything on your rifle the only FF rail I was able to find is the DD Omega rail. I put one on a few weeks ago, it is rock solid and I am very happy with it. All of the others that I found required some modification to the weapon. It took about ten minutes to install. Don't know about the lightest but was very quick and easy and DD quality.

That is an excellent question and one I have been pondering for quite some time, unsuccessfully I might add...

 

 

 

Yes, keymod looks like the way to go to save weight, but I haven't yet found a true keymod tube that lets you use the FSB.

 

Also, Bravo Company is coming out with a keymod tube that looks groovy, and the Geissele one looks cool too.

This guy: http://fortismfg.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=73

This guy: http://fortismfg.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=73

Now to install this I'd still have to remove the fsb and in turn my pinned comp right?

 

Thinking I might change the carbine system to middy while I'm at it.

Now to install this I'd still have to remove the fsb and in turn my pinned comp right?

 

Thinking I might change the carbine system to middy while I'm at it.

Yep.

Eh maybe I'll start a new upper. And match it with a new lower. Damn BLD!

Eh maybe I'll start a new upper. And match it with a new lower. Damn BLD!

You sound like someone in need of one of my upcoming Fortis uppers and billet lowers

MWPX I like that Fortis for a new build, I don't think I would choose it for an upgrade or to retrofit an existing upper with a rail system.

 

I have a DD Omega 7 on a work gun and an Omega 9 on mix length DMR type I built. The DD Omega 7 and 9 rails are an easy install, they allow the use of the FSB and free floats the rail. They are a little heavier and more expensive than other 7" and 9" rails, but personally the ease of install and the fact that there is no permanent modification to the host rifle (makes them great for issued guns where modifications are "frowned upon") is worth the extra cash and weight. I recommend them without hesitation and would buy another if issued a new rifle.

 

I am currently looking at the Troy Ind 2 piece free float rails. They install with little to no disassembly of existing uppers (you may have to cut off the delta ring for some models), are free float rails, come in full rail and tube types, allow use of a standard FSB, are relatively less expensive than similar offerings from comparable manufacturers, and come in "extended" versions that have rails that extend past the FSB on carbine and mid-length gas systems.

MWPX I like that Fortis for a new build, I don't think I would choose it for an upgrade or to retrofit an existing upper with a rail system.

 

 

Why is that?

I haven't actually played with one of those rails let alone installed one, but from what I can tell from the limited research I have done the Fortis rail is a one peice design requiring either the removal of the FSB and muzzle device or the cutting and grinding down of the FSB to a low profile type gas block for installation on an already built upper.

 

Personally, I prefer the standard FSB for social guns so cutting/grinding is a no-go and if the muzzle device I prefer is already pinned and welded I don't want to cut that off destroying a $100-$150 part, that now needs to be replaced (essentially making it a $200-$300 part) plus I now have to pay a smith to pin and weld the replacement on since I am not currently set up to do that kind of work.

 

Or I can buy a 2 peice free float rail for $250, install it myself on any riflegun I have with no issues and deal with the extra 3-6oz.

 

That being said, I am seriously looking at one of MWPXs uppers or upper/lower combos in the very near future. For a light weight rail system that does not need to be retrofitted I am digging the Fortis offerings a whole bunch.

Makes sense. Thanks for the insight.

 

My 16" upper is a carbine system with a railed block. I was just thinking for the amount of $ to convert it to middy and free float it I can just start on a new upper.

And if you build a new upper you may need a new lower to go with it can't have a lonely upper in the safe, that's barbaric.

 

Quick tangent related to my above statement:

 

I have been following these receivers as they were being developed and tested:

http://www.tnarmsco.com/receivers/

 

I am not a fan of polymer lowers but I am intrigued by these. And at $45-$55 a pop I may just get a few.