I ordered a complete premium upper, an LPK and box of 9mm ammo from PSA, and requested the whole thing be shipped to my FFL (so they can do the compliance work on the upper). So far, so good.

 

Yesterday I got an email from PSA customer service that the order is ready to ship, however their company policy is the ammo must ship to the address on the FID card for NJ residents. OK, fair enough...

 

So I called them and said no problem, please send the ammo and the LPK, but the upper needs to go to the FFL. I offered to pay the difference in shipping since it would be two shipments instead of one.

 

That's when the PSA CS guy said why not send one box with everything in it directly to me? When I explained that the upper needed to be compliant (no bayonet lug and flash hider removed and replaced with a pinned/welded muzzle brake) before I could have it, he was a little shocked.

 

I explained that some people may feel comfy ordering the uppers and having them shipped to their home, but I'd prefer to do everything by the book and would prefer not to even touch a non-compliant upper. I'd rather send it to the FFL, get the work done, and pick it up all pinned welded and shaved.

 

Did I do that right (albeit maybe a bit overly cautious) or am I missing something? Can you order an upper, have it sent to your house and then either do the compliance work yourself (not that I would but in general) or run it over to your FFL to have them do it?

you can have the upper if you do not have a complete lower to make a complete rifle.

Send everything to your house, you're fine. Save on shipping too.

Send everything to your house, you're fine. Save on shipping too.

+1

If you have a lower at your house just take the pistol grip off and keep it at work until the upper is compliant

you may have hosed every other buyer in NJ with the "I can't have that" line  FWIW

I do know that a complete firearm can not be shipped in the same box as ammo, that's all I can offer. 

you may have hosed every other buyer in NJ with the "I can't have that" line  FWIW

Nahhhh, I don't think their legal department is rewriting the rules and updating the website due to my chat with a CS rep. I explained to him that I was being overly cautious, and since they were doing the work anyway, might as well get it into the hands of the FFL and skip me, the middle man. He was just curious as to why, that's all.

 

I was more surprised about the other half of the equation, not being able to ship the ammo to the FFL. Why is that (besides company policy). I thought an FFL could receive *almost* anything gun related.

Btw are we doing the work.... Lol.

Of course you are!

 

If it ships tomorrow, it should arrive next week.

 

Now all I need to do is get a brake for it. I was thinking about this one, which was discussed in another thread.

 

http://nordiccomp.com/retail/shop/ar-15-10/nordic-components-tactical-compensator-223-black-oxide/

you may have hosed every other buyer in NJ with the "I can't have that" line FWIW

Yeah if he did he's paying for all my extra fees in the future.

Yeah if he did he's paying for all my extra fees in the future.

Great...I won't go to prison, but if PSA changes their rules I'll wind up being a guest of the NJGF penalty box for life!

 

:-)

I don't think you are wrong.  I have not found any court precidents involving this so it's up to each individual. 

The Law:

5. A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm,

or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts

are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

 

A complete upper when you are in the posession of a complete lower is (imho) readily assembled so play it safe. 

 

Personally I like to build uppers for my AR's as I have complete lowers even though those lowers are already mated to uppers; 2 pins is not perminant. 

I order my barrel last so when it arrives I can put it together then Silver Solder the brake on and have it compliant before it touches the upper. It takes me more then 20 minutes to build an upper from parts - I don't consider this "Readily Assembled" but my opinion may not mean much in court.   

Nothing wrong with shipping directly to your FFL. Probably smart, not just legally, but also logistically (saves you a trip as mentioned).

 

However, there's def no reason to be explaining anything to the vendor.

Since when is someone selling me something entitled to ask me a bunch of questions that are none of their business.

 

But if you really, really felt compelled to explain yourself, "my FFL is doing some work on the build" should be more than sufficient.

Nahhhh, I don't think their legal department is rewriting the rules and updating the website due to my chat with a CS rep. 

 

Don't be so sure. I probably won't happen, but one email/call/chat w/ a supervisor or if one was listening in (they do that in customer service depts) saying "Hey did you know bayo lugs, flash hiders, etc are a no go in NJ?" and PSA might stop selling those to us altogether.

End result was they will send one box with everything in it to the FFL. Two thumbs up for PSA customer service. I am going to keep my eye on their site though....

 

Thanks for the words of wisdom fellas! I do feel pretty good about taking the high road, but next time the less said the better!

Constructive Possession is one of those terms that scares non-lawyers sh*tless. It's really making a mountain out of a molehill. There is no official NJ guide to building an AR.

If cops bust down your door to search your house and happen to find an upper and a lower near each other, suffice it to say you've got bigger problems to worry about and you're getting a lawyer anyway...

(...)

So I called them and said no problem, please send the ammo and the LPK, but the upper needs to go to the FFL. I offered to pay the difference in shipping since it would be two shipments instead of one.

 

That's when the PSA CS guy said why not send one box with everything in it directly to me? When I explained that the upper needed to be compliant (no bayonet lug and flash hider removed and replaced with a pinned/welded muzzle brake) before I could have it, he was a little shocked.

 

I explained that some people may feel comfy ordering the uppers and having them shipped to their home, but I'd prefer to do everything by the book and would prefer not to even touch a non-compliant upper. I'd rather send it to the FFL, get the work done, and pick it up all pinned welded and shaved.

(...)

 

I can only kindly ask you TO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NOT DO THIS again :-) (at least with that wording I highlighted above).

I am not even going to have a long discussion around this. There are so many stores out there (with AimSurplus as probably the widest known example) that are overcautious and do not sell some items to NJ residents even if it is perfectly legal just to be on a safe and even safer than safe side.

I REALLY like PSA so far and REALLY don't want them to follow suit and impose any unnecessary restrictions on sales to NJ. Please, don't push them to do so and give them hints, LOL. I perfectly understand your rationale to ship it to FFL even from a pure logistics standpoint, but PLEASE don't use such a wording and explain it as you explained it above. Just tell them that you want some customization of your new upper to be done by your gunsmith / FFL and don't want to waste your time on going back and forth to the FFL as this would cost you more than just paying extra $7-10 for shipping it separately.

Thanks

I asked because this is EXACTLY WHY Aim surplus doesn't sell ar lowers to NJ residents anymore...just so everyone knows

what happened at aim surplus for them to stop selling lowers in Nj? A customer call?

yup, then they started looking into it and found that Califonia/cities were sueing a company for magazine rebuild kits so they pulled the plug and any "grey area" parts

Ouch! OK well I never called AIM lol.

 

I'll keep an eye on it for a while, but like I said I don't think they will stop selling uppers to NJ folks. Based on the input above, they would have no way of knowing if you had a completed lower, pistol grip removed, etc etc. Its a little too grey for them to make a major change for a gun part.

 

Thanks for the info all!