Excellent Op-Ed today in the Star Ledger about concealed carry

Argued strongly for CC as a crime deterrent.

My one issue is that the author argued against requiring any classes for CC, suggesting that no one "needs to be an Olympic shooter".  Not sure that is the purpose of a class, any more than a Driver's Ed prepares you for Formula One.   I have to say that at least for me, (and maybe I am a minority) the basic pistol classes I took some time ago were instrumental in making me a better and safer shooter.  I thought I was a safe shooter, until I learned some basic rules in class, like removing all ammo to a separate place when cleaning my guns.

I know requiring a CC class is a controversial idea for some, and I respect that view, but I thought it was the one thing I was not sure  bout in an otherwise great article.

I have no problem with a class, but I think that's getting ahead of ourselves to even think that far ahead. If we can get some form of concealed carry beyond the no-issue we have now, it's a win in my book.

I think anyone here would take a class if it allowed ccw.

I think anyone here would take a class if it allowed ccw.

If you are forced by law to take a class, then yes anyone here would take the class. I don't believe you should be forced to take a class to exercise a Right.

 

Just because someone takes a class, does not mean that person will be any safer.

I have already taken some classes for my various ccw's

Last year I ran an NRA Basic Pistol class for a few guys at work. One of them has been shooting for over 30 years and was happy to declare that he learned a thing or two.

 

None of us know it all. Sometimes it takes another pair of eyes to draw your attention to something you didn't even know you were doing suboptimally.

 

e.g. Have you ever tried to proof read your own document?

http://blog.nj.com/njv_guest_blog/2014/02/fight_gunfire_with_guns_in_cri.html

 

please vote and post.

Last year I ran an NRA Basic Pistol class for a few guys at work. One of them has been shooting for over 30 years and was happy to declare that he learned a thing or two.

 

None of us know it all. Sometimes it takes another pair of eyes to draw your attention to something you didn't even know you were doing suboptimally.

 

e.g. Have you ever tried to proof read your own document?

Asked my wife to proof read something last night, I agree on the training, but it should be for a nominal fee or covered by the state.

I'd love a class covering equipment and active shooting.  I went the opposite route and did my FL paperwork with a course I took outside of a specific CCW class.  However I have exercised my CCW right in Florida and learned a lot from practical application from a person I was carrying with at the time.  Hell I'd still love to take a course.

Just an FYI since so many people seem interested in taking classes to further their preparedness vs. just getting a license. Most real CC classes require 3-5 days. And when you are done, they've really just taught you how to prepare your mindset and drill on your own, not actually accomplished the task.

 

There is no doubt you can learn some things in a one day course. And no course is below me, if I am laying down my money and putting in my time I am going to walk away with something if I have to beat it out of somebody. But if you are really interested in pursuing this to assist your development you probably should be looking at a little more contact time and in-depth treatment of the subject matter.

I know a LOT of people will say we don't need a "class" to exercise our God given right. And while I do agree, I would also say we are losing the battle for that right in NJ right. Maybe we should rethink our position on this. Maybe we could meet the Libs half way (or at least take away one of their arguments against ccw) by saying ok fine we will agree to training - paid for by the individual applying - provided we find a way to keep fees for training and ccw affordable. I'm thinking with at least a million people applying there would be a ton of money to be made even at nominal fees. I know I'll probably catch some flak saying this, but it's just a thought. We DO want to ensure that approved ccw holders are all going to be safe. And in would feel safer knowing everyone approved has had proper training. Thoughts?

 

 

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Class?  No class?  Who cares?  We will thank our lucky stars when it just comes down to taking some class.

 

One question I do have is whether anyone knows anything about the "National Association for Gun Rights".  Because the guy who wrote the article is the "Press Secretary" for the National Association for Gun Rights, and in the article he said the following:

 

The organization working hardest to restore and protect the people’s liberties throughout New Jersey is the National Association for Gun Rights. NAGR works on the front lines of the gun rights fight in New Jersey and stands behind the notion that America is still the land of free people.

 

Anyone hear of this organization?  Their website looks good but anyone can make a nice website.  Are these guys legit?  Have they actually done anything in NJ, like lobbying or outreach or anything?

 

I know a LOT of people will say we don't need a "class" to exercise our God given right. And while I do agree, I would also say we are losing the battle for that right in NJ right. Maybe we should rethink our position on this. Maybe we could meet the Libs half way (or at least take away one of their arguments against ccw) by saying ok fine we will agree to training - paid for by the individual applying - provided we find a way to keep fees for training and ccw affordable. I'm thinking with at least a million people applying there would be a ton of money to be made even at nominal fees. I know I'll probably catch some flak saying this, but it's just a thought. We DO want to ensure that approved ccw holders are all going to be safe. And in would feel safer knowing everyone approved has had proper training. Thoughts?

 

 

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My thoughts are we don't have an opportunity anyway so it doesn't matter.

 

But if and when we do, it won't be because we talk them into it with a training requirement. It will be because they are compelled by voters/courts/bad publicity or because they want to do it. In which case giving them concessions is cover and a sweetener, not something that is going to make them change their mind and come to the table on and issue they fundamentally disagree with.

 

If we ever get a shot at this, we need to keep the requirements and restrictions at a minimum. Whatever we agree to, it's probably not going to get any better for generations. You guys scare me, you are not very good at this. Today you may say, "Well yeah, nobody should have a gun at a school, college kids are retards so no guns there, and nobody needs a gun in a park where children go, and guns and bars don't mix, and if you leave a gun in your car it could be stolen so we need to cover that, and people should be able to put up signs prohibiting guns." You'll wake up in a year and you can't leave your house with a gun unless you are going to a friend's house.

 

This kind of thing lasts a long, long time. And whatever restrictions or requirements they get, they are going to make the most out of them.

 

One step at a time. Like I said, we can't get them to agree with us by offering stringent training requirements. They'll laugh at us. When they come to the table it will be because they are boxed in a corner. We'll offer only what is needed to seal the deal at that point.

Class?  No class?  Who cares?  We will thank our lucky stars when it just comes down to taking some class.

 

One question I do have is whether anyone knows anything about the "National Association for Gun Rights".  Because the guy who wrote the article is the "Press Secretary" for the National Association for Gun Rights, and in the article he said the following:

 

The organization working hardest to restore and protect the people’s liberties throughout New Jersey is the National Association for Gun Rights. NAGR works on the front lines of the gun rights fight in New Jersey and stands behind the notion that America is still the land of free people.

 

Anyone hear of this organization?  Their website looks good but anyone can make a nice website.  Are these guys legit?  Have they actually done anything in NJ, like lobbying or outreach or anything?

 

Good question, I never heard of them...Probably some libs doing data mining

 

I know I'll probably catch some flak saying this, but it's just a thought. We DO want to ensure that approved ccw holders are all going to be safe. And in would feel safer knowing everyone approved has had proper training. Thoughts?

 

No flack, just my opinion.  I agree with the other post, we would be lucky to be presented with that option but here’s the deal. The State of NJ would turn the entire process it into one huge cluster-f*** of paper work and red tape. That’s their MO and they just can’t help themselves form not doing it. Furthermore I have ccw permits for five other states so should I or anyone else with valid ccw permits be forced to undergo more training, I think not

I really have to stop reading those comments. I think I had like three aneurysms.

I'm strongly in favor of people taking classes, especially on the law and what constitutes justification for use of deadly force. That being said I'd have a hard time making it a requirement to obtain a CCW permit. (then again, I'm against the notion of needing a permit, but I'd still be strongly in favor of the aforementioned education.)

 

if that was at all unclear, blame Bailey's.

The way I see it, open carry should not require a license. Concealed should require a license and training.

By the way the op ed is from NAGR, the organization everyone loves to hate. But you must admit they wrote the article and not the NRA.

Link?

http://blog.nj.com/njv_guest_blog/2014/02/fight_gunfire_with_guns_in_cri.html

 

make sure you guys vote in the poll

80% of the people who voted favor allowing ccw. Everyone of us should vote on this and try and drive that number much higher.

 

 

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80% of the people who voted favor allowing ccw. Everyone of us should vote on this and try and drive that number much higher.

 

 

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Even if it mattered, there aren't enough of us for it to matter ( still voted , always do )

Yeah we just have to keep plugging away and pray it goes our way eventually. I think more and more people are getting involved at least.

 

 

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My thoughts are we don't have an opportunity anyway so it doesn't matter.

 

But if and when we do, it won't be because we talk them into it with a training requirement. It will be because they are compelled by voters/courts/bad publicity or because they want to do it. In which case giving them concessions is cover and a sweetener, not something that is going to make them change their mind and come to the table on and issue they fundamentally disagree with.

 

If we ever get a shot at this, we need to keep the requirements and restrictions at a minimum. Whatever we agree to, it's probably not going to get any better for generations. You guys scare me, you are not very good at this. Today you may say, "Well yeah, nobody should have a gun at a school, college kids are retards so no guns there, and nobody needs a gun in a park where children go, and guns and bars don't mix, and if you leave a gun in your car it could be stolen so we need to cover that, and people should be able to put up signs prohibiting guns." You'll wake up in a year and you can't leave your house with a gun unless you are going to a friend's house.

 

This kind of thing lasts a long, long time. And whatever restrictions or requirements they get, they are going to make the most out of them.

 

One step at a time. Like I said, we can't get them to agree with us by offering stringent training requirements. They'll laugh at us. When they come to the table it will be because they are boxed in a corner. We'll offer only what is needed to seal the deal at that point.

 

BRAVO!  +1 TRILLION!

 

This ^^^^is an example of experienced thinker with political savvy vs. the naive.  The ONLY way we get CCW in NJ is if the Dems are boxed into a corner via SCOTUS, our SCONJ, or voting certain key gun grabbers out of office.  We don't wanna start hinting at give-backs (training), we want to merely be like everybody else in the Free States.  Otherwise, Fox here is correct, and your CCW will only be GTG on the 5th Friday of the month in broad daylight hours while transiting to Grandma's House in PA!

 

Leave the politics to the Professionals.  Work hard, work some overtime, do what we tell you, do it when we tell you, write checks when we need you to (to pay for billboards for PUBLIC support), and STOP eating your own young!

 

There--I SAID IT!

 

Dave