Guys, saw a really nice Saiga 12 ga at Ottomanelli's.  My question is can I convert to an AK style as long as I am 922r compliant or are shotguns different than ARs under the evil feature law?

 

Hooefully Vlad sees this as he seems to know a ton about this.

Semi auto shotguns CAN'T have ANY "evil features" ie: pistol grip, detachable magazine, grenade launcher, bayonet lug, or flash hider. Semi auto rifles are allowed 2 of the above features, as long as neither is the grenade launcher.

 

Yup.. strictly stock ugliness. Cant even get a 10 rnd stick for it. And since they only make 5 rnders instead of 6..... meh

 

 

 

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How much was the Saiga12? They tend to mark things up pretty steep.

I had an idea of permenatly welding the magazine in place and adding a pistol grip, but I dont know if you could load the mag with bolt held back...anyone have one and want to check this out for me?

Pistol grip is not allowed at all on semi. Saiga 12 requires A

Detachable mag . Mine cost $699 . In nj there is very few things up can do to convert it. There is a thread about nj legal saiga 12 conversions in shotgun section.

 

 

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Semi auto shotguns CAN'T have ANY "evil features" ie: pistol grip, detachable magazine, grenade launcher, bayonet lug, or flash hider. Semi auto rifles are allowed 2 of the above features, as long as neither is the grenade launcher.

I've been out of the NJ firearms game for a while, so I sure hope I'm not about to put my foot in my mouth, but I do believe that this is incorrect information.  The Saiga 12 comes from the factory with a detachable magazine, and in factory configuration the Saiga 12 is legal in NJ as long as the magazine holds 5 or less rounds.

You can  do the conversion without a pistol grip and keep it in NJ with a muzzle break on it. However, you have to ask yourself if it is worth it.  If you want a pistol grip, you would have to keep it in a free state.

I've been out of the NJ firearms game for a while, so I sure hope I'm not about to put my foot in my mouth, but I do believe that this is incorrect information. The Saiga 12 comes from the factory with a detachable magazine, and in factory configuration the Saiga 12 is legal in NJ as long as the magazine holds 5 or less rounds.

your probably correct, I didn't look it up nor am I a lawyer. I'm sure pistol grip makes it a no go though.

 

once again a semi auto shotgun cannot have a pistol grip.

I swear i am going to make that my signature so people will get it pounded in their heads

^^^ this is why we need a thank button!

How does AR = saiga ...

unfortunately the answers you received are correct.... no pistol grip semi auto shotgun action in NJ.. 

Silverado427 Saiga doesn't equal AR.  The rules in NJ apply to semi-automatic rifles and not ARs.  However, I know that shotguns have some additional restrictions in the AWB laws.

 

 

To whoever asked I think the shotgun was 800 bucks.  I haven't seen one around in a while but I know two years ago they were like 500 bucks.  

 

If I bought a benelli M4 I guess I could put a pistol grip on that because it doesn't have a detachable mag.  

Oh my god..what is so hard about this....you can not have a pistol grip on a benelli...ITS A SEMI AUTO SHOTGUN....NO PISTOL GRIPS

Easy-Joe, save your energy so you can chase some drunks down!  

I'm off...I'm actually out sick right now. Of course the only time i get off is when i am super sick

Saiga 12's for the US come from the factory in "Sporting configuration" to meet US Importation law, which includes a "sporting" stock aka a standard shotgun stock.  When I bought mine in Nov '12, I was fortunate enough to get one "from the back" of the store still sealed in the factory (absolutely dirt cheap) cardboard box.  Wrapped in the plastic yellow wrap, all new.... straight up stock.

 

This is due to the import laws requiring firearms imported into the USA to be sporting in nature and have a sporting purpose.  The Saiga-12 is often "converted" to its original configuration once it's here but in the state of NJ, as stated and unlike the rifles, you can't have *any* of the evil features not a combination or certain amount of them.  Pistol grip is a banned feature so while you can have a S-12 /w 5 round magazine and conventional stock in NJ you cannot put a pistol grip at all.

 

 

I just moved to FL and am in the process of getting my head and monies together for the conversion process... there are just so many things both real world and gun world to spend money on first .

 

 

 

oh and about the Benelli M4-  it does have a pistol grip but does not have a detachable magazine which is why it could pass importation law w/ the pistol grip.  But up until just recently , Benelli did not make a conventional stock M4 which is why there was almost none in NJ (a few people spent big big bucks to buy them out of state, bought an expensive conventional stock, have them installed, and then transferred here legally).  When I bought the S-12 in early early Nov '12 , Benelli didn't make the M4 w/ the conventional stock (they do now).  I MIGHT have gone that route because it is an amazing shotgun, but so is  the S-12.  I might be one of the lucky ones who has never had a speck of problems with my S-12, but it's an amazing shotgun.  Maybe not as "sexy smooth" as the Benelli but I got the best of both worlds IMHO, I got my Italian fix w/ a SuperNova Tactical and my "assault shotgun" fix w/ the S-12.

Oh my god..what is so hard about this....you can not have a pistol grip on a benelli...ITS A SEMI AUTO SHOTGUN....NO PISTOL GRIPS

Misread a quote. I thought it was related to detachable mag box. Got it.

Saiga 12's for the US come from the factory in "Sporting configuration" to meet US Importation law, which includes a "sporting" stock aka a standard shotgun stock. When I bought mine in Nov '12, I was fortunate enough to get one "from the back" of the store still sealed in the factory (absolutely dirt cheap) cardboard box. Wrapped in the plastic yellow wrap, all new.... straight up stock.

 

This is due to the import laws requiring firearms imported into the USA to be sporting in nature and have a sporting purpose. The Saiga-12 is often "converted" to its original configuration once it's here but in the state of NJ, as stated and unlike the rifles, you can't have *any* of the evil features not a combination or certain amount of them. Pistol grip is a banned feature so while you can have a S-12 /w 5 round magazine and conventional stock in NJ you cannot put a pistol grip at all.

 

 

I just moved to FL and am in the process of getting my head and monies together for the conversion process... there are just so many things both real world and gun world to spend money on first .

 

 

 

oh and about the Benelli M4- it does have a pistol grip but does not have a detachable magazine which is why it could pass importation law w/ the pistol grip. But up until just recently , Benelli did not make a conventional stock M4 which is why there was almost none in NJ (a few people spent big big bucks to buy them out of state, bought an expensive conventional stock, have them installed, and then transferred here legally). When I bought the S-12 in early early Nov '12 , Benelli didn't make the M4 w/ the conventional stock (they do now). I MIGHT have gone that route because it is an amazing shotgun, but so is the S-12. I might be one of the lucky ones who has never had a speck of problems with my S-12, but it's an amazing shotgun. Maybe not as "sexy smooth" as the Benelli but I got the best of both worlds IMHO, I got my Italian fix w/ a SuperNova Tactical and my "assault shotgun" fix w/ the S-12.

I was looking at the s12 and will probably be happy with it plain. I love the Benelli but it costs more than 2x.

I was looking at the s12 and will probably be happy with it plain. I love the Benelli but it costs more than 2x.

 

 

what to expect...

 

cons

an awful trigger

 

pros

detachable mag semi auto shotgun

 

I had mine in NJ for some time unconverted.. and even unconverted it is obnoxious fun.. being able to reload it with the mag makes for fast reloads.. but still no comparison to the gun with a pistol grip.. 

what to expect...

 

cons

an awful trigger

 

pros

detachable mag semi auto shotgun

 

I had mine in NJ for some time unconverted.. and even unconverted it is obnoxious fun.. being able to reload it with the mag makes for fast reloads.. but still no comparison to the gun with a pistol grip..

Another way the NJ and guns ain't perfect together.

 

I don't want to dump all that dough into an m4. I may just pass for now and think about a KSG.

 

Thanks.

My buddy just bought a brand new s12 in the box with a 2013 production mark on the box. Compared to my s12 ut seems alot better. After about 50 rds of 00buck and a quick cleaning we were cycling federal game shot no issues, loading from a closed bolt(which on old.models like mine its not that easy) and the trigger was close to the trigger i had polished by a vendor on another forum. Even the magazine well excepted 2 pro mags, 5 keepshooting mags and 5 more oem mags he had with no filing.. I would buy a s12 again in a heart beat after using his. Ive owned 3 so far and traded all but 1 for other guns.

Misread a quote. I thought it was related to detachable mag box. Got it.

Pistol grips are completely illegal on semi-automatic shotguns, regardless of ANY other features that the shotgun has.  As I understand it, detachable magazines in and of themselves have no bearing on whether the shotgun is illegal or not, as long as it cannot hold more than the allowed round count.  The round count for semi-automatic shotguns goes across the board, and is the same regardless of whether it's a tube magazine or detachable magazine.