So, last night, our 12 year old, 40 Gal water heater (gas) decided to act like Geyser. 

 

This is first time I would be getting the heater replaced, so wondering about few things.

 

1. Is there difference between 6 yr and 10 yr warranty models. A plumber tells me they all last approx same.

2. What  can I expect to spend (approx) for the 6 yr model - material & labor

3. Any recommendation for a decent plumber in Bergen County (Montvale).

 

Thanks

can't help you with questions 2 and 3 but i can tell you the only difference between a 6 and 10 year model is the warranty.

From what I hear go with a tankless, less space and no tank to take a dive.

Just put in the six year unit and call it a day.  Extra price for 10 year is you buying a warranty that pays out crap.  Tankless units are too expensive to recoup investment over savings. Takes too long to get you money back.  People also complain that the hot water varries in temperature too much.  Decent six year unit on flex pipe couplings seems the best answer to me!

 

Get your water tested.  If you have hard water its effecting your water heater life!

Just put in the six year unit and call it a day.  Extra price for 10 year is you buying a warranty that pays out crap.  Tankless units are too expensive to recoup investment over savings. Takes too long to get you money back.  People also complain that the hot water varries in temperature too much.  Decent six year unit on flex pipe couplings seems the best answer to me!

 

Get your water tested.  If you have hard water its effecting your water heater life!

 

Big plus one on what T Bill said!

A tankless also has to be serviced periodically. We run an acid based solution through it to clean out the undisolved solids that collect inside the coils. They also don't always flow enough GPM to fill a tub. I've done a few houses that needed 3 units to supply the entire house. Buy a quality heater from a Plumbing supply house NOT home depot or Lowes. I recommend Bradford White, AO Smith, or Rheem. The lifespan of a hot water heater is 7-10 years with good water, acidic water or hard water will be less. The 6 year warranty is fine if it makes it to 7 and dies you needed a new one anyway by then. Keeping it past 7 years is costing more in energy than it would be to replace the unit. Plus your risking catastrophic failure, like you experiencing now. BTW those flexible connectors are not only illegal according to the National standard Plumbing code adopted by NJ, they are also ghetto! If you want to do the job correctly use dielectric unions. You have to solder but its proper. Also don't forget a bonding jumper between hot and cold pipes if there isn't already one in place. The code states the first 18" of hot and cold pipe must be copper, brass, or galvanised. You also need a relief valve drip leg extended to the floor no closer than 2" or more than 6" above the floor. Three screws in each joint on the vent pipe if its metal, must be 4" minimum if the appliance is 40,000 BTUH or higher. I also recommend a thermal expansion tank be installed with the new unit. Don't forget to pull a permit its required for water heater replacement in this state. The fine if caught can be $2500 for not pulling permit, $250 for not calling for inspection.

 

I pay around $400-$500 for a 40 or 50 gal natural gas Natural draft heater usually. Power vent models are much more.

 

I only service Morris, Sussex, & Warren, and Western Passaic, sorry.

As another licensed plumber, I agree with everything said by Deerslayer. I will add: tankless water heaters have there place, but replacing a standard 40 gallon(non power vent) does not make a lot of sense to me.

 

PULL THE PERMIT!!

 

Homeowners who live in the home are allowed to do their own plumbing work, and get their own permit. I have seen quite a few people run into issues trying to sell with a new water heater and no sticker from the inspector.

I went tankless (Navien) in a house because I had no floor space for a tank.  I have not been disappointed.  3 showers, wash machine and dishwasher and I have ZERO problems with hot water.

 

Yes, you can do your own heater, and you can then pull the permits and get it inspected and as long as you follow the advice above (particularly the bonding jumper and the venting) it will pass.  For the record, my dad did his with the copper "flexes" which I also am not a fan of, however his passed inspection without issue.

I don't hate tankless heaters, like stated above they have their place. If the house is piped properly and the unit is sized to deliver the proper wsfu load then they work great. I have been to homes they were installed in because it wouldn't fill the Roman tub in the master bath"Handy man said it would work great" lol.

 

Some inspectors have a hard on for the flexible connectors. Some let it slide.

 

A homeowner can pull a permit and preform the work him or herself as long as its a single family dwelling that the homeowner resides at. Landlords cant do their own plumbing, heating, or electrical. If something should happen after you install the unit and it floods the place or burns down the house (even if its not your fault) your going to have a rough time explaining to your insurance company why you didn't have the heater inspected. "Claim denied!"

Great advice from everyone. After calculating the typical heater cost, my skill, time, and permit ,  decided to go with a local plumber.  Hope everything works out. Thanks again.

Great advice from everyone. After calculating the typical heater cost, my skill, time, and permit , decided to go with a local plumber. Hope everything works out. Thanks again.

http://m.youtube.com/?client=mv-verizon-us#/watch?v=-_IlNbsILLE

Is it true that replacing the magnesium rod inside the water heater after so many years may help extend the life of the water heater?

What does a thermal expansion tank do and how much do they cost?

Is it true that replacing the magnesium rod inside the water heater after so many years may help extend the life of the water heater?

What does a thermal expansion tank do and how much do they cost?

Changing the sacrificial anode rod is recommended annually, as well as draining about 5gal from the tank every 6 months or so. Sometimes its not possible to change the rod if the room height is too low. If it hasn't been done within the first or second year forget about it, your not going to get it out.

 

Thermal expansion happens when you heat water. The molecules get excited and take up more space than they did cold. Resulting in increased tank pressure, adding an expansion tank gives the expanding water a place to go. Older heaters didn't have this issue the expanding water would push back into the rest of the plumbing system. Now heaters recover much faster resulting in more expansion, as well as the addition of heat trap nipples installed from the factory in the cold inlet and hot outlets. This keeps the heated water in the tank saving energy. That's the reason for an expansion tank. They cost about $35. Well worth it to save the life of the heater as well as alleviate the possibility of the pressure/tempature relief valve blowing off flooding the area the heater is in. They aren't required by code yet, but its good practice to install one. I always include it when I do any gas fired water heater. Electric heaters don't normally need them, they recover very slowly.

BTW I normally charge $125 per hour for advice, to my fellow gun owners its free...

^^^ Much appreciated :-) .   The recommended plumber showed up on time, installed Bradford White. They had to dig concrete to make room for larger vent (apparently code changed since last install). I am glad I didnt take this job on myself. I am happy with the work.

 

On the old one, I remember the cold water line (incoming) being cold. On this after, it feel warm / hot.  Is hot water from the tank backing into cold line ? Is it a problem ?

Doesn't sound like he installed the heat trap, or it's malfunctioning.

Yeah sometimes guys remove the factory installed heat trap nipples and use brass instead. Or if they soldered the female adapter at the tank its possible to melt the heat trap. But its normal for some heat to transfer into the first foot or two of pipe. I normally armorflex (foam pipe insulation) the first four feet of the hot and cold supplies where they enter and exits the tank. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

Ten years ago you could use 3" 26 guage smoke pipe for the vent. The mechanical code changed in 06 to minimum of 4" smoke pipe for any gas fired appliance that was rated at 40,000 btuh or higher. So he did the right thing. Most 40 gal heaters are usually right at that threshold, its stated on the ratings plate.

DeerSlayer, I guess I may as well piggy back on this thread instead of starting my own.  I bought a new sacrificial rod for my heater, but it looks like the thread is slightly stripped so it won't screw into my heater.  It's been sitting in my basement for months now so I don't think I can return it to the plumbing supply store. Do you think that getting a die for that size and recutting it would work? Thread chaser? 

DeerSlayer, I guess I may as well piggy back on this thread instead of starting my own. I bought a new sacrificial rod for my heater, but it looks like the thread is slightly stripped so it won't screw into my heater. It's been sitting in my basement for months now so I don't think I can return it to the plumbing supply store. Do you think that getting a die for that size and recutting it would work? Thread chaser?

you could try that it should be 3/4 NPT most likely. Or just go buy another then return the striped one a day later. And act all angry about it. Tell them you had to call a plumber to bring you another, he charged you an arm and a leg to install it. And you would like your money back. That should work.

Where do you live I could probably thread chase it for you. I'm in Sussex County, I have dies from 3/8" to 2" in my van.

Where do you live I could probably thread chase it for you. I'm in Sussex County, I have dies from 3/8" to 2" in my van.

 

I'm in Chester. Where in Sussex county are you?

I'm in Chester. Where in Sussex county are you?

The Borough of Hopatcong, about 15-20 min drive from you up 206.