The guy who supposedly committed five 'armed' robberies in the last month has been arrested as described in the article linked below, and charged:

 

"He is charged for the Sussex County offenses with three counts of first-degree armed robbery, three counts of possession of an imitation firearm, two counts of third-degree theft, one count of third-degree making terroristic threats and one count of fourth-degree theft."

 

Is anyone familiar with a statute that makes possession of an imitation firearm illegal? Or perhaps it's just illegal if used in the commission of a crime?

 

http://www.njherald.com/story/27561131/2014/12/05/prosecutor-armed-robbery-suspect-planned-another-heist

I'm pretty sure that committing a crime with something that looked like a gun but wasn't it's an extra crime.

 

Side note, many years back when the Rt 1 flea market still existed (before it became Rt 18, and then ceased to be), there used to be places in there selling subcaliber blank guns that looked very much like real guns. I hate to judge but based on the gang colors people were wearing while buying those you kinda guessed that someone was gonna get mugged with one of those someday soon. 

I believe it is illegal if used in the commission of a crime.

In NJ?  Even if its not, they'll still try to ruin your life over it.

In NJ?  Even if its not, they'll still try to ruin your life over it.

 

Err if I'm mugging people I'm pretty sure I've already done that to myself.

2C:39-1.  Definitions.  The following definitions apply to this chapter and to chapter 58:

"Imitation firearm" means an object or device reasonably capable of being mistaken for a firearm.

 

2C:39-4.  Possession of weapons for unlawful purposes.

Imitation firearms. Any person who has in his possession an imitation firearm under circumstances that would lead an observer to reasonably believe that it is possessed for an unlawful purpose is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

2C:39-5.  Unlawful possession of weapons.

Firearms or other weapons in educational institutions.

(3)Any person who knowingly has in his possession any imitation firearm in or upon any part of the buildings or grounds of any school, college, university or other educational institution, without the written authorization of the governing officer of the institution, or while on any school bus is a disorderly person, irrespective of whether he possesses a valid permit to carry a firearm or a valid firearms purchaser identification card.

2C:39-1.  Definitions.  The following definitions apply to this chapter and to chapter 58:

"Imitation firearm" means an object or device reasonably capable of being mistaken for a firearm.

 

2C:39-4.  Possession of weapons for unlawful purposes.

Imitation firearms. Any person who has in his possession an imitation firearm under circumstances that would lead an observer to reasonably believe that it is possessed for an unlawful purpose is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

 

2C:39-5.  Unlawful possession of weapons.

Firearms or other weapons in educational institutions.

(3)Any person who knowingly has in his possession any imitation firearm in or upon any part of the buildings or grounds of any school, college, university or other educational institution, without the written authorization of the governing officer of the institution, or while on any school bus is a disorderly person, irrespective of whether he possesses a valid permit to carry a firearm or a valid firearms purchaser identification card.

Well there it is. Thanx NJJG.

Hahaha gota love carma! this kid is a scumbag! I picked up his dog because it was running at large and he and or his family obviously beat the dog but I could not prove it so I had to release the dog back to them. the dog was extremely head shy and when I pulled out my snare pole it hit the deck and pissed all over it self. I made a report to the SPCA and they investigated it and came to the same conclusion as me. someone has been beating the dog but they could not prove it in court. Hopefully it was this scumbag and not the dog will be better off. I am going to call and see if the family wants to surrender the dog not that this dick is going to be out of the picture for a while.

Hahaha gota love carma! this kid is a scumbag! I picked up his dog because it was running at large and he and or his family obviously beat the dog but I could not prove it so I had to release the dog back to them. the dog was extremely head shy and when I pulled out my snare pole it hit the deck and pissed all over it self. I made a report to the SPCA and they investigated it and came to the same conclusion as me. someone has been beating the dog but they could not prove it in court. Hopefully it was this scumbag and not the dog will be better off. I am going to call and see if the family wants to surrender the dog not that this dick is going to be out of the picture for a while.

 

You probably shouldn't be telling us that, because scumbags like this dude are exactly the people who will try to drag you through court.

You probably shouldn't be telling us that, because scumbags like this dude are exactly the people who will try to drag you through court.

Its all public knowledge easily accessible from the town. investigation is over and they were cleared of any wrong doing. Any report I made during the investigation and the SPCAs falls under the freedom of information act

Other states also have laws against imitation firearms used in the commission of a crime.

I've charged possession of imitation firearm without It being used in a crime.

I've charged possession of imitation firearm without It being used in a crime.

 

2C:39-4. is vague enough, no crime needs to be committed, just that someone might believe a crime is committed.  While you were probably fine under the language of the law, I do kind have a problem with the vagueness of it.  Basically what it says is all you need is someone to look mildly concerned, and suddenly someone who wasn't a committing a crime before now is.  I understand the intent of the law, sorta, but like so much NJ law it is stupidly broad.

The guy who supposedly committed five 'armed' robberies in the last month has been arrested as described in the article linked below, and charged:

 

"He is charged for the Sussex County offenses with three counts of first-degree armed robbery, three counts of possession of an imitation firearm, two counts of third-degree theft, one count of third-degree making terroristic threats and one count of fourth-degree theft."

 

Is anyone familiar with a statute that makes possession of an imitation firearm illegal? Or perhaps it's just illegal if used in the commission of a crime?

 

http://www.njherald.com/story/27561131/2014/12/05/prosecutor-armed-robbery-suspect-planned-another-heist

it is if you use it the act of a crime or in a criminal manner. I live in the town...it's a convincing replica

it is if you use it the act of a crime or in a criminal manner. I live in the town...it's a convincing replica

Yes I expected it might be very realistic. Although i also think the law is too vague, I can see the utility of it. Just think of the Cleveland kid that got killed in the park while waving around the Air-soft pistol that he made sure looked as realistic as possible by taking off the orange muzzle cap. If he had been in NJ he'd have been committing a crime.

 

As many times as I've been in 2C:39, I never paid attention to that section.

2C:39-4. is vague enough, no crime needs to be committed, just that someone might believe a crime is committed.  While you were probably fine under the language of the law, I do kind have a problem with the vagueness of it.  Basically what it says is all you need is someone to look mildly concerned, and suddenly someone who wasn't a committing a crime before now is.  I understand the intent of the law, sorta, but like so much NJ law it is stupidly broad.

This law has been around for some time and being there is a lack of complaints about the police abusing it I'd say the language is okay. I've seen it used a few times and I don't think anyone here would say it was abused. Example? Gangbanger on the boardwalk flashing a gun in his waistband flashing it to his friends. Someone else sees it calls the cops. Cops find its one of those very real looking blank pistols Vlad described. Guy gets charged with Imitation firearm. I have no problem with that.

Last time i charged it found a snub nose cap gun with the orange tip removed rolled up inside one of a perps sweatshirts. No reason to have it and you are trying to conceal it. My guess is you aren't carrying it for a good reason. Especially when i get your criminal history and you have a multitude of weapons charges

Last time i charged it found a snub nose cap gun with the orange tip removed rolled up inside one of a perps sweatshirts. No reason to have it and you are trying to conceal it. My guess is you aren't carrying it for a good reason. Especially when i get your criminal history and you have a multitude of weapons charges

Sounds good to me.

It really doesn't sound good to me at all. Was the gun visible in such a way that a reasonable bystander would even observe it? Doesn't sound like it. No reason to have it? WTF does that even mean? According to NJ I don't a reason to own a firearm either if they so decide. If you are guessing you don't have evidence.

 

Now BLF, I actually understand exactly what you are saying and what you did, and I'm not even sure I completely disagree with laws that allow you a certain amount of grey and flexibility to deal with this sort of situation.  But I do have a real problem with the whole "need" thing.

And therein lies the root of the problem here in the Glorious Peoples Republik of New Jerseystan - the premise of the "need of a firearm" written into law.

 

With the SCOTUS McDonald decision, it's only a matter of time (G-d willing) before the abomination of NJ gun law goes the way of Dred Scott.

Or the opposite happens and the court changes so that Heller and McDonald become nothing but temporary detours on our path to Orwellian hell.

 

Even odds, I say.

not gonna happen njJoniGuy, if anything..it will go the other way

It really doesn't sound good to me at all. Was the gun visible in such a way that a reasonable bystander would even observe it? Doesn't sound like it. No reason to have it? WTF does that even mean? According to NJ I don't a reason to own a firearm either if they so decide. If you are guessing you don't have evidence.

 

Now BLF, I actually understand exactly what you are saying and what you did, and I'm not even sure I completely disagree with laws that allow you a certain amount of grey and flexibility to deal with this sort of situation. But I do have a real problem with the whole "need" thing.

Totality of the circumstances dictates a lot. Obviously hiding it because he doesnt want it found. Also it was found search incident to lawful arrest for another charge of criminal trespass. The minute i stoppef him and started to pat him down i found a large kitchen knife in his inside jacket pocket. Cuffed and removed to command for further search and processing. Gun found in another sweatshirt on his person

I read the citation in this thread and I still don't understand. Is this about guns with pinned stocks, fake flash hiders, etc. that look like real models of guns?

I get all sides of this.   I don't hear about it being abused, so I have bigger fish to fry, but at the same time the law is a little vague.  Vagueness can lead to over-reaching.

 

If used in the commission of a crime in NJ, the gun charges are the first to get plead away.  Fake gun or real gun, doesn't matter.  In BLF's case, the Perp had a Rap Sheet a mile long, so I could care less how many charges for fake guns that scumbag got, because the charges go directly to intent.  INTENT is the key phrase here.  If I buy a skid of fertilizer, a few 55 gal drums of #2 oil and rent a Penske truck (all within a few hours of each other), I might have INTENT.....UNLESS I own a farm.

 

What I don't want to see is little Johnny gettin' arrested for playin' Cops and Robbers.......  About 45 years ago my Dad got his two sons .38 Colt Detective Specials (life-like snubbies) made out of pot metal.  These things looked and felt REAL, and even weighed more than the real thing!  They took the really BIG ring of caps and you loaded it by swinging-out the cylinder, just like on a real gun.  The bores were plugged and so were the chambers, but these things could rob a bank or liquor store NO PROBLEM.  Dad made us holsters out of cardboard and duct tape.  We used to ride our bikes all over South River while drawing and shooting at things using strong-hand only technique (maybe that's why I'm SO good, lol).  Kids that bullied us were made to shit their pants, as we passed old Polish ladies with brooms sweeping their sidewalks laughing at our shenanigans.  Things sorta came to a head when we clamped-on SIRENS to the bike forks that worked with a pull chain.  We used to go as fast as we could and then blast the SIREN, draw the snubbie and "shoot" at each other as we traversed through intersections.  Then a neighbor had a talk with Dad and the SIRENS went away.  Good thing too, as I was tired of changing the tires on the bikes since the hardware for the sirens would grind-off the tires' sidewall!  Today we'd a been another asterisk and planted in a graveyard for doing the shit we used to get away with!  Shortly thereafter Dad bought us some real guns and taught us right from wrong, and the rest as they say is History..........

 

Dave

Cops and Robbers Expert (with SIREN)