As described in the headline I'm researching the process of acquiring a permit in NJ. 

Robbinsville TWN (link below) requires two references who MUST be residents of New Jersey themselves. 
In addition the form is asking to fill out several other questionnaires which are not present in other townships,
for example Springfield TWN here:

http://springfield-nj.us/download/Public%20Safety/Police/Forms/Firearms%20Applicant%20Info%20and%20Forms/Form%20STS-33.pdf

Is this true for any NJ county that I need to provide written references from two NJ residents? Or is the Robbinsville Police dept asking me for something they shouldn't have?



 

4. State of New Jersey Application page: Question # 29 must be answered with complete mailing address.

Reference forms should be given to your references. Applicant should fill out their name and address and

date of birth on form. References CANNOT be a relative. They may be a neighbor, co-worker, or a friend.

References must also be a resident of New Jersey. You must return references with your firearms packet

paperwork. 

http://www.robbinsvilletownshippolice.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/New-Firearms-Packet-2014.pdf

That's them making up their own rules. The statute only says they must be citizens.

i have used the same 2 out of state references for over 20 yrs...never a problem..as a side note....they were NEVER contacted by phone or mail... 

For the past 20+ years I've used the same Pa resident as one of my references with no issue. I don't believe it states anywhere that the references must reside in NJ.

My references are out of state. Both of them.

They get a questionnaire via regular mail.

Bloomfield PD has the same "requirement". I didn't have any issues listing residents of other states (MA, NY, NC) as my references - I just point out every time that there is no such a requirement on NJSP side.

Oh, wait... maybe that was the reason of ~4 months processing every single time I apply for new permits, LOL? :-)

 

BTW, there are no requirements on legal status (citizen / permanent resident and/or person on a work visa / diplomat etc.) of references as well, at least not that I've known of. It just should be "a reputable person" with a mailing address and a phone number in the US. I used one of my good friends literally weeks after he moved to the US after obtaining his immigrant visa and there has been no particular issues with that.

The references are part of the background check process and it's my understanding that the exact method is NOT PRESCRIBED in the law, therefore the towns CAN make up their own rules regarding references.  I know that many towns ask that you not use relatives.

 

As far as the extra forms go - those are prohibited by law.  All the forms you need to obtain an FPID card and pistol permits are available from the NJ State Police Website.

The entire Reference thing is a joke anyway.  Who picks to submit the name of someone that will give them a bad reference?  Most of the questions that are asked would not be answerable to many references anyway.  If I chose not to tell a person about criminal or drug history they likely would not know.  Since the police are responsible for running a background check why do we even need references, is this admission that the police are not up to the job?  Stupid law.

I have a silly belief that the entire "References" issue goes WAY back to the historical RED SCARE of the 1950's.  NJ, not wanting to be shown-up by the likes of the F.B.I., decided to "investigate" firearms applicants in the same manner as if one were to register for employment at a Top Secret government Agency such as the alphabet soup kind:  CIA, FBI, NSA, DOD and others.  So as I laugh to myself while reading this, and remembering filling-out my original NJFID paperwork WAY back in 1977, I can envision suit and hat w/ overcoat wearing types like Elliot Ness pounding the pavement (with shoe leather) checking on the "reputable person status" of said applicants while using a phone in which you had to hold the black receiver up to your ear while talkin' into the mouthpiece, lol!

 

In today's world of technology, they can run your prints thru NCIC and SCIC and in a few seconds, if you're in the system, it comes-up on the screen of a laptop in a patrol car........

 

Who knows, maybe when Big Brother implants us with micro computer chips, they'll wanna list every firearm we ever purchased or was given to or willed to us....but by then it will be too late!

 

If the Democrats can vote using the names off of headstones, maybe I should list my dead friends as references for a gun permit, lol?

 

Dave

Really not a stupid law, friends see you all the time if someone is unstable a friend may give that feedback to detective..

I think both of my references were from PA.

 

Both of them were contacted via phone. 

OP:

 

This requirement is in direct contravention of 2C:58-3,f which states, in part: There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.

 

There is no requirement that the references must be NJ residents, nor are there any additional questionnaires beyond the application, the mental health background check and the non-criminal background check. What your PD is doing is illegal and there have been several other PD's that have been taken to court, over such nonsense, and lost. Up to you how far you want to push it. At the very least report it to the ANJRPC. If we keep buckling under they'll just keep adding requirements.

 

No research to be done - simply read the statutes.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

OP: I second Bob's suggestion. You need to report this so the ANJRPC can push their buttons. All that extra stuff is illegal, and the longer we let them get away with it the tougher it is to root out. Here's the link:

 

http://www.anjrpc.org/?page=A_Strikeforce

I wonder what it takes to sue a town.  Did anyone create a do-it-yourself package so law abiding citizens can just use it to sue these towns ?

I wonder what it takes to sue a town.  Did anyone create a do-it-yourself package so law abiding citizens can just use it to sue these towns ?

 

I am curious whether the citizen has to bear the burden of the expense to get a PD to cease and desist breaking the very laws they are paid to uphold. It would seem to me that you should be able to file a complaint with the County Prosecutor's office and let them pursue it, but I have no first hand experience.

When I first applied years ago I was politely asked to provide two different references, since the ones I originally used were the Chief of Police and the Lieutenant that oversees the permitting process...

Really not a stupid law, friends see you all the time if someone is unstable a friend may give that feedback to detective..

Who is going to use a reference they don't think is a slam dunk?

The entire Reference thing is a joke anyway.  Who picks to submit the name of someone that will give them a bad reference?  Most of the questions that are asked would not be answerable to many references anyway.  If I chose not to tell a person about criminal or drug history they likely would not know.  Since the police are responsible for running a background check why do we even need references, is this admission that the police are not up to the job?  Stupid law.

My problem is not getting good references, but rather not having enough people that I would feel comfortable asking a reference for firearm application. I certainly would feel awkward asking my supervisor (NYC requirement) to give me one.