He is doing another seminar at GFH within the next month. Sign up for a seat and you can ask him your questions face to face. And any other gun law related questions as well. His seminars are worth the nominal entry fee.

Thanks. I don't see it on their March calendar. Must be next month.

A compiled list maybe the only thing. But there has to be enough in each county and that will take many. We are spread way too thin. I'm not poking holes and I'm not bitching. Like I said, just stating facts. Come up with a sensible idea is fine. Power in numbers as usual is needed. When NJ2AS spoke of this idea, I believe it went no where. In a long run, you'll end up answering that question on your next purchase permit of a denial too.

 

IF you can find court date hearings for ccw applicants and be at the door when they are denied, then get them on a petition, you may be able to build a faster list. But again, numbers!

 

 

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Thanks. I don't see it on their March calendar. Must be next month.

It's on Friday May 8th. We just missed the February class. I will go with you to the the May 8th class. It may be easier to have 2 people asking questions. Let me know if you're going to sign up. It's been a couple years since I sat through one of his seminars.

 

It's on Friday May 8th. We just missed the February class. I will go with you to the the May 8th class. It may be easier to have 2 people asking questions. Let me know if you're going to sign up. It's been a couple years since I sat through one of his seminars.

This seems to me like the wrong venue for what needs to be accomplished. The time I need with him could range from five minutes (if he shoots us right down) to half an hour if it reaches the point of discussing strategy. That forum would not give me half an hour, and spending the entire day for five minutes seems like a waste for me.

 

In either case I'd rather pay him $200 for 20 minutes than spend an entire day down at GFH and shell out $400. The "shoot don't shoot" seems like it could be fun but it's really not for us. If someone breaks in they get shot; if he's holding my wife close by he doesn't get shot. Outside the home well, you know the story. 

The "shoot don't shoot" seems like it could be fun but it's really not for us. If someone breaks in they get shot; if he's holding my wife close by he doesn't get shot. Outside the home well, you know the story.

A well placed headshot will solve that prob...

 

 

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I am not sure if Mr. Nappen office responds to emails. Phone call / voice mail may be best option.

A compiled list maybe the only thing. But there has to be enough in each county and that will take many. We are spread way too thin. I'm not poking holes and I'm not bitching. Like I said, just stating facts. Come up with a sensible idea is fine. Power in numbers as usual is needed. When NJ2AS spoke of this idea, I believe it went no where. In a long run, you'll end up answering that question on your next purchase permit of a denial too.

 

IF you can find court date hearings for ccw applicants and be at the door when they are denied, then get them on a petition, you may be able to build a faster list. But again, numbers!

 

 

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I really appreciate you sharing your experience.  At the end of the day, this may turn into something or may be into nothing. But having tried is better than nothing, unless someone here has direct knowledge of various avenues explored in previous attempts at NJ2AS or other orgs.

I agree. By all means, try. Just be prepared for the out-comes. I really think unless you have the numbers, it won't matter. So get the numbers in....

 

These scumbag politicians in this state just don't care what you want.

It's going to have to be a nationwide effort before we get anywhere.

Believe me, I want nothing but a positive change.

 

 

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One thing that bothers me about our pro-2A organizations is very few ideas seem to trickle  up from membership to the top brass. Not sure if it's our fault or theirs or both of ours. They do have meetings but they're not geographically convenient for all of us and there's no guarantee that they are the right forum for communicating innovative approaches to changing NJ law.

 

This idea has been knocking around for about as long as I've been on these boards, but except for the NJ2AS comment related here the other day I see very little bounce back. 

 

It's almost as if ANJRPC, NJ2AS, NRA, etc. are operating in a self-insulated vacuum (whatever that means). 

Gentlemen, I am totally enthusiastic about this project to restore our Second Amendment rights and bring CCW to NJ.  Unlike most of our other legislative efforts where we are playing defense (like fighting further mag limit reductions, enforcing permitting laws, etc.), this is a chance to go on offense and take back what is rightly ours.

 

But I am seeing a lot of inefficient duplication of effort on this.  NJ2AS is working on it, as is SAPPA through TPATH.  In addition, I have seen at least one other group fighting for CCW.  IIRC, Smokin .50 is involved with one.  (Sorry I have not provided links, but it's all out there.)  Seems to me that instead of starting yet another group, it would be a lot more efficient to somehow get the various groups together and fight as one strong unit.

Gentlemen, I am totally enthusiastic about this project to restore our Second Amendment rights and bring CCW to NJ.  Unlike most of our other legislative efforts where we are playing defense (like fighting further mag limit reductions, enforcing permitting laws, etc.), this is a chance to go on offense and take back what is rightly ours.

 

But I am seeing a lot of inefficient duplication of effort on this.  NJ2AS is working on it, as is SAPPA through TPATH.  In addition, I have seen at least one other group fighting for CCW.  IIRC, Smokin .50 is involved with one.  (Sorry I have not provided links, but it's all out there.)  Seems to me that instead of starting yet another group, it would be a lot more efficient to somehow get the various groups together and fight as one strong unit.

 

And this is THE problem with those of us who value liberty and freedom.  We value liberty so much that we can't get behind any one cause because we want to do our own thing in our own way.

 

Our opponents are successful because the last thing they want is to have to think for themselves.  They crave having someone to tell them what to do, what to think, what to vote for, which petition to sign, and what rally to attend.  They are good at walking in lock step with whoever will step up to lead them. 

I understand that there's concern that if this is done, we won't end up with one entity to file a suit against.  Because, many different PDs will block the applications before they ever get to the Superior Court.

 

If this is a real problem, maybe we focus on those who live in areas served by the NJSP.  The rural areas of the state are where the most gun owners are going to be found so this probably isn't that difficult to do.

Why go through all the time and energy of applying? Everyone knows the outcome. Denial. So what if you reduce the percentage denied for 1 year. Their counter arguement will be that it was a fluke and that in all other years since the law began they have had 97% approval.

Why not simply get as many people together who would like to be able to conceal carry and start a class action law suit based on the fact that it is the law that THEY WILL BE DENIED FOR USING SELF DEFENSE AS THEIR JUSTIFIABLE NEED. Other courts have already ruled that self defense is a valid reason. Therefore NJ's law is not correct.

Put THEM on the defensive. No need to waste time, money and energy applying and waiting for denial. Get a group of people who would like to apply for a CCW, everyone ponies up "x" dollars and get a lawyer.

To equate to other recent, historical court cases. Same sex marriage. Now legal in most states. If state "x" says we will not issue marriage certificate if couple is same sex then why bother applying for marriage certificate!?

It's the same thing. Other states have ruled that self defense is valid reason. NJ says it's not. I don't belive it is necessary to apply and get denied. You need o challenge NJ's law on it's face. NJ says self defense isn't valid reason. Other courts have held it is.

Why go through all the time and of applying? Everyone knows the outcome. Denial. So what if you reduce the percentage denied for 1 year. Their counter arguement will be that it was a fluke and that in all other years since the law began they have had 97% approval.

 

Why not simply get as many people together who would like to be able to conceal carry and start a class action law suit based on the fact that it is the law that THEY WILL BE DENIED FOR USING SELF DEFENSE AS THEIR JUSTIFIABLE NEED. Other courts have already ruled that self defense is a valid reason. Therefore NJ's law is not correct.

 

Put THEM on the defensive. No need to waste time, money and energy applying and waiting for denial. Get a group of people who would like to apply for a CCW, everyone ponies up "x" dollars and get a lawyer.

 

To equate to other recent, historical court cases. Same sex marriage. Now legal in most states. If state "x" says we will not issue marriage certificate if couple is same sex then why bother applying for marriage certificate!?

 

It's the same thing. Other states have ruled that self defense is valid reason. NJ says it's not. I don't belive it is necessary to apply and get denied. You need o challenge NJ's law on it's face. NJ says self defense isn't valid reason. Other courts have held it is.

+1

 

Why go through all the time and of applying? Everyone knows the outcome. Denial. So what if you reduce the percentage denied for 1 year. Their counter arguement will be that it was a fluke and that in all other years since the law began they have had 97% approval.

 

Why not simply get as many people together who would like to be able to conceal carry and start a class action law suit based on the fact that it is the law that THEY WILL BE DENIED FOR USING SELF DEFENSE AS THEIR JUSTIFIABLE NEED.

You probably wouldn't have standing to sue if you haven't even been denied.

 

You probably wouldn't have standing to sue if you haven't even been denied.

Not only that. Where do you file such a suit? Which court has jurisdiction and the inclination to overturn JN? 

Depending on how you were harmed, if it his the denial you would appeal that court ruling and work your way up NJ and out to the feds I guess. If you found a civil rights issue you might be able to file a federal suit from the start. Not really sure.

Depending on how you were harmed, if it his the denial you would appeal that court ruling and work your way up NJ and out to the feds I guess. If you found a civil rights issue you might be able to file a federal suit from the start. Not really sure.

and that sounds mighty expensive.

and that sounds mighty expensive.

The term "expensive" does not do justice. This is a hopeless cause. There is no cohesion, no intelligence, no planning, no sense of history or anything else in this state's pathetic pro-gun movement. One million gun owners my ass. When I move out, about one month before I need a wheelchair, I'll get a permit. Before then I'll just keep lighting Chanukkah candles. 

there was a guy over on farcebook, in one of the nj2a groups. he was talking a bunch of #%^ saying he didn't give a dam about any permits....he carried anyway, 'cause he wasn't gonna let a stupid illegal law cost him his life.......

there was a guy over on farcebook, in one of the nj2a groups. he was talking a bunch of #%^ saying he didn't give a dam about any permits....he carried anyway, 'cause he wasn't gonna let a stupid illegal law cost him his life.......

I guess he's not concerned with his anal virginity either. I would rather be dead personally.

 

Lmao

 

 

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I guess he's not concerned with his anal virginity either. I would rather be dead personally.

i dunno man. just sayin' what i saw over there. there's some retards on there don't forget......

i dunno man. just sayin' what i saw over there. there's some retards on there don't forget......

No doubt.

I guess he's not concerned with his anal virginity either. I would rather be dead personally.

LOL what a moron...guys like that don't do the CCW cause any justice.

As I have posted before, I can only see three possible outcomes from carrying illegally, none of them good:

 

1.) You carry for years, never have to use your CCW, and never get caught.  That's your best case, but it means you risked a long prison term

for no reason.

 

2.) You carry, use your CCW to save your life, then get put in prison for many years.  You will come out a broken person (in many ways), but at

least you saved your life.

 

And your worst case scenario is:

3.) You carry, get caught before you need to use your CCW, and have all of the problems of #2, but without even having benefited from it.

As I have posted before, I can only see three possible outcomes from carrying illegally, none of them good:

 

1.) You carry for years, never have to use your CCW, and never get caught.  That's your best case, but it means you risked a long prison term

for no reason.

 

2.) You carry, use your CCW to save your life, then get put in prison for many years.  You will come out a broken person (in many ways), but at

least you saved your life.

 

And your worst case scenario is:

3.) You carry, get caught before you need to use your CCW, and have all of the problems of #2, but without even having benefited from it.

Well put. Don't break the law.

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/69241-does-anyone-carry-even-though-its-illegal/

It is a chicken vs. the egg scenario. We file in Superior Court, any Superior Court. Indicating that the justifiable need is illegal and denies our right to carry. A judge is going to say, "sight the examples of anyone being denied". Unless the attorney can have stats and facts to back up the denial percentages, I think it would be thrown out of court since a judge will say that no one has been denied since they haven't applied. Hasn't those stats been denied for FOIA requests?

 

Problem is we know 98% of the people who apply get denied. Yet can we get the supporting facts of those denials?

 

What I don't like is when I talked the Trooper responsible for processing firearms applications told me that if I apply for CCW and when, not IF, I get denied, I will have to mark off question#  27 "Have you ever had a firearms purchaser identification card, permit to purchase a handgun, permit to carry a handgun or any other firearms license or application refused or revoked in New Jersey or any other state?" as a "yes" on any future P2P applications. Why take that risk when you know you will be denied? Especially when you have to write a paragraph why you feel the need to CCW.

So do you know anyone that was denied a p2p for a denied CCW application? Do you know even know someone who knows someone that was denied a p2p for a denied CCW application? Albert Almeida doesn't seem to have any problem getting p2ps.